to refurb or not......

woodpuppy · Post by **woodpuppy** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:56 am

Greetings all-

The thing that got my fire going over Sharps rifles is the New Model 1863 military carbine (sn 96XXX) my grandfather gave me. We know very little of the rifle in terms of where it came from and family ownership etc., but to me it's still the family heirloom.

The bore of the rifle is in ROUGH shape, badly pitted throughout. The chamber insert has a radiating pattern to the rear edge of the tube. The exterior surfaces have character, nice brown patina overall. Wood is highly charactered, forend is cracked. Flash channels in the breech-block have been filled with solder, thanks to my uncle. Action is still crisp, sear release is firm but very clean. Yes, I dry-fired it before I knew better. Interior of action is beautiful, pellet priming system is intact and complete.

Which brings me to my question; let us assume the barrel is a lost cause, and that the rifle is unshootable in its current condition. Would you have the rifle rebuilt and refinished to "as new" condition and shoot her, revelling in the joy of shooting your family heirloom, or would you leave 'er in the safe, in tired but original condition, to be handled rarely and mused over wistfully.......

the poll option doesn't seem to be working, so here are the choices:

1. restore as 1863 carbine
2. rebuild as 3-band military rifle
3. rebuild as 1863 sporting rifle
4. rebuild as 1874 conversion
5. do not alter, get my head examined for suggesting such a thing.

thanks for your comments,
Dave

pfeist · Post by **pfeist** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:03 pm

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert in Sharps, nor am I a professional restorer, or a hard core colllector...

In MY opinin, it's a tie between #1 and #5.

If you're going to do ANYTHING to it, I think you'd be best off to do the absolute BEST you can to restore it to it's ORIGINAL state, with the caveat that you do NOT want to "refinish" it any more than absoolutely necessary!

You do NOT want to strip the honest, well earned character that the rifle has by doing a polish and reblue. It'll just never look "right".

Almost anything you do to it will COMPLETELY destroy any collectors value it might have. Find out what it's worth before you do ANYTHING more than a cleaning. You may decide that your grandchildren would get more out of the value of the rifle than a "worthless" heirloom.

Here's something to consider.. maybe...
I can't think of any names, but see if you can find a barrel restoration shop that can REBORE the barrel.. that is, ream and re-rifle it to a larger caliber. You may have to "invent" your own moulds for it, but you'd keep the originality and finish, and have something you can shoot.

I feel for your situation... I have a hard time leaving well enough alone myself. Let me point out a personal familly heirloom story to give you something to think about...
My familly has a dresser (chest of drawers) that was made in the very early 1700's. It has been handed down.. one day I'll inherit it.
My grandfather had it refinished in the early 40's.
It was appriased some years ago.. had it NOT been refinished, it would be worth nearly a quarter million dollars (that's $250,000).
Since it's been refinished, it's worth about $10,000.. tops.

You can't UNDO refinishing work.
Think REAL careful about it.
Like I said before, I have NO idea what it's worth NOW.. so maybe you'll lose little or nothing by having it minimally restored to a shootable heirloom.

I'll stop rambling..
I'm intersted in the opinons of those who have more knowledge and experience in the matter.

Paul F.

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:59 pm

If you want to shoot it, just get it re-barreled & keep the original barrel.

Probably a good welder or some one who knows what he/she is doing could melt the solder in the flash channel.

If you don't want to shoot it, just bring it out for 'show & tell.'

I would be tempted to obtain a factory letter considering it's a martial arm, who knows where its been or to whom issued....

mrrangerman · Post by **mrrangerman** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:11 am

pfeist

If I was you, when I took possesion of that chest I would get it re-appriased. For the price to drop 240,000 that sounds real fishy.

good shootin
Dan

woodpuppy · Post by **woodpuppy** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:26 pm

Well now, that would be a viable option: rebarrel, new breech block, new wood, I would of course keep the original stuff.

So how would "they" determine if a receiver is safe to fire?

Rich Siegel · Post by **Rich Siegel** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:19 pm

Woodpuppy,

Bob Hoyt has relined thousands of Civil War carbines, muskets and rifles for members of the N-SSA. He is so good that you cannot see the reline unless someone tells you that it has been done. The relines shoot as well or better then the original barrels.

As to the other issues, several people work on restoring original guns to shooting order. Eric Schuessler in Hinckley, Ohio is one. E-mail me if you want more info.

Rich
blackdog1@prexar.com

gmartin · Post by **gmartin** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 3:13 pm

Woodpuppy,
I can't imagine the barrel being that pitted. It must have been shot a trillion X and cleaned infrequently and perhaps stored over a mantle in a humid climate. I'm with Rich on this option. However, I wasn't aware Shiloh made a pellet priming system. Sir, you've an interesting rifle!
Good luck. Gregg

woodpuppy · Post by **woodpuppy** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:22 pm

gmartin,

this is an original 1863, not a Shiloh. It likely spent *cringe* around 50 years lying on the basement floor in my grandparents' home in New Jersey. It is horribly pitted, though you can still see rifling throughout the bore.

I've settled on what I'm likely to do with it- rebarrel as a sporting pattern and have new wood installed. I'd rather not alter the original barrel, but I'd like to be able to shoot it safely.

Regardless, I've got a Shiloh to save for, so due to expense the 1863-what-if-project will have to wait.

Dave

gmartin · Post by **gmartin** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:29 pm

Woodpuppy,
Thanks for enlightening me on my mistake. Well, just please don't let it pit any longer until you get around to restoration, which is what I would do. Earlier on this forum a man who owns an heirloom '53 decided to have it completely refurbished, the patient survived, and everybody was happy.
Thanks, Gregg

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:09 am

Does anyone have recommendations on how to stop rust and preserve a pitted bore for storage? (please don't say cosmoline

)

woodpuppy · Post by **woodpuppy** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:10 am

hey I'm not a guest- I didn't know you could post without logging in! whoops!

gmartin · Post by **gmartin** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:48 pm

Woodpuppy,
I understand that museums use a wax coating that is nearky impervious to everything. I do not know its formulation or application, but I know someone close to me who does, so unless someone gives you advice sooner, I'll give you what I can glean soon.
Gregg

gmartin · Post by **gmartin** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:50 pm

Nearly not nearky.
Gregg

woodpuppy · Post by **woodpuppy** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:43 pm

Is "nearky impervious" more than "nearly impervious"?
one product someone else in town mentioned is "rig" grease.

powderburner · Post by **powderburner** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:13 pm

probably the best thing is to send it to me out here in the very dry desert and I will store it for you ..... it wont rust here...........Dean