Rich,
Well, if a good deal on a Romano Maynard comes up. I re read that article mentioned above and the pictures of '63/65 sporter with 3 barrels shows very nice wood to metal fit on an original, as on a 1st. model Maynard.
Thanks again, Gregg
The dreaded cleaning of the '63
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Rich Siegel
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Todd Birch
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1st Model Maynards
The fact that they come up for sale on a regular basis gives rise to the question - "Why?"
You don't find rifles like Sharps or Remington offered on a regular basis, and when you do, they go for a premium.
Could be the owners know something we don't.......
Todd
You don't find rifles like Sharps or Remington offered on a regular basis, and when you do, they go for a premium.
Could be the owners know something we don't.......
Todd
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"
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Rich Siegel
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Ken Hartlein
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Todd Birch
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Availability of '63's
If you are considering one, get one in .50 calibre, if available.
A whole lot less recoil (remember that military butt plate), it uses the same bullet as the .50-70, and you can get 60 grs of BP behind it in a paper cartridge if you are careful.
The shearing action of the gas plate almost guarantees the loss of some powder which is why I dropped my charges to 55 grains.
I've never slugged the bore of my Farmingdale '63, but it digests Lyman's 515141 as cast, pan lubed.
If you can choke down the use of Pyrodex, their 60 gr .54 calibre pellet rolls into an effective, authentic looking cartridge with minimum fuss.
Shoots very well in the bargain.
Very beneficial to people who have a hard time with getting a supply of BP and for NSSA skirmishers if the rules allow.
No less authentic than modern fast twists, heavier bullets and mercury recoil absorbers in '74's.
Todd
A whole lot less recoil (remember that military butt plate), it uses the same bullet as the .50-70, and you can get 60 grs of BP behind it in a paper cartridge if you are careful.
The shearing action of the gas plate almost guarantees the loss of some powder which is why I dropped my charges to 55 grains.
I've never slugged the bore of my Farmingdale '63, but it digests Lyman's 515141 as cast, pan lubed.
If you can choke down the use of Pyrodex, their 60 gr .54 calibre pellet rolls into an effective, authentic looking cartridge with minimum fuss.
Shoots very well in the bargain.
Very beneficial to people who have a hard time with getting a supply of BP and for NSSA skirmishers if the rules allow.
No less authentic than modern fast twists, heavier bullets and mercury recoil absorbers in '74's.
Todd
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"
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gmartin
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Todd,
Gun Broker is a "favorite Site" on my computer. Ken will have me there shortly.
.50 gas it's benefits, but my carbine .54 is fine, and as you know I just purchased an NEI mould.
Your use of the .54 Pellets is pure serendipity, you lucked out for they shoot very well for you.
Any caliber '63 is fine, the price must be correct.
I remember prior to this site a man was curious about .52, as that seemed to be the "proper" caliber. If my reading serves me correctly .50 to .56 were all used in the '59-'63 types. No repicas for the .52 or .56 that I'm aware of but at least NEI, surely others, has bullets for them.
.44 was used widely in the few sporters made, interesting to think of a replica thus.
Gregg
Gun Broker is a "favorite Site" on my computer. Ken will have me there shortly.
.50 gas it's benefits, but my carbine .54 is fine, and as you know I just purchased an NEI mould.
Your use of the .54 Pellets is pure serendipity, you lucked out for they shoot very well for you.
Any caliber '63 is fine, the price must be correct.
I remember prior to this site a man was curious about .52, as that seemed to be the "proper" caliber. If my reading serves me correctly .50 to .56 were all used in the '59-'63 types. No repicas for the .52 or .56 that I'm aware of but at least NEI, surely others, has bullets for them.
.44 was used widely in the few sporters made, interesting to think of a replica thus.
Gregg
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Todd Birch
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'63 in .44
A pal has a Farmer '63 carbine in factory .45. It feels down right 'whippy' in the hands, no heft to it. Didn't like it.
I was gonna buy it for my lady to shoot until I saw the snapped off flash hole clean out screw and he told me he's never properly cleaned it by removing the gas plate.
Re: the bore size of originals....isn't that the reason for the "Christmas Tree" bullet design, to make up for the difference in bore sizes?
Todd
I was gonna buy it for my lady to shoot until I saw the snapped off flash hole clean out screw and he told me he's never properly cleaned it by removing the gas plate.
Re: the bore size of originals....isn't that the reason for the "Christmas Tree" bullet design, to make up for the difference in bore sizes?
Todd
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"
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Rich Siegel
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Todd, and Gregg,
I've never heard that the Christmas tree bullet was to make up for different bore size but it's a good possibility. I always thought that the tappered bullet allowed the bullet to center itself in the chamber, especially since there is no brass case to fit into the chamber.
For such a popular and well made carbine in the Civil War, I'm really surprised that the Sharps' bore varied so much in size but then again, back then the war department didn't seem to mind variations in bore size. That's why the 58 cal. miniballs really were 57 cal, to load easier and fit the various American and Enfield musket barrel sizes. Even after the war when the Sharps carbines were converted to 50/70 cal., if the bore of a 52 cal. Sharps was in good shape, it was not relined with a 50 cal. liner and the 50 cal bullet fired through the 52 cal. bore. I wonder about the accuracy.
In my #1 Shiloh in 40/65 with a .408 bore, I get excellent accuracy shooting a .4055 soft lead bullet. The bullet must bump up enough but that's only .0025 undersized, not .02" undersized.
Rich
I've never heard that the Christmas tree bullet was to make up for different bore size but it's a good possibility. I always thought that the tappered bullet allowed the bullet to center itself in the chamber, especially since there is no brass case to fit into the chamber.
For such a popular and well made carbine in the Civil War, I'm really surprised that the Sharps' bore varied so much in size but then again, back then the war department didn't seem to mind variations in bore size. That's why the 58 cal. miniballs really were 57 cal, to load easier and fit the various American and Enfield musket barrel sizes. Even after the war when the Sharps carbines were converted to 50/70 cal., if the bore of a 52 cal. Sharps was in good shape, it was not relined with a 50 cal. liner and the 50 cal bullet fired through the 52 cal. bore. I wonder about the accuracy.
In my #1 Shiloh in 40/65 with a .408 bore, I get excellent accuracy shooting a .4055 soft lead bullet. The bullet must bump up enough but that's only .0025 undersized, not .02" undersized.
Rich
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Todd Birch
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Xmas Tree Bullet
I've got an out-of-print book titled "Cartridges" by Logan. It has excellent descriptions and line drawings of obsolete cartridges, including Sharps rounds using the Xmas Tree bullet.
The paper tube is tied to the base ring. Looks odd, as the tube is considerably under sized compared to the bullet.
What does Seller's book have to say on the topic?
The British Enfield cartridges were marked .575", relying on obturation and the expansion of the hollow base to fit the bore. There bullet was base up in the cartridge requiring the cartridge to be reversed and the bullet seated with the waxed paper around it.
Worked for them and the Confederacy who brought 60,000 Enfields into Fredericksburg.
In the current issue of BPCN, Steve Garbe gets into the topic of bore size bullets vs oversized. He claims to have gotten some of his best accuracy from bullets that were undersized for the bore.
He says he intends to get deeper into this topic in future issues.
I'm about to start a run of .45-70's for a newly acquired RB with a older Numrich barrel with 1 in 22" twist. I'm going to load both Lyman's 457193/405FP and 457125/500RN; some sized .457, some .459.
Going to be interesting to see if it makes any difference.
Todd
The paper tube is tied to the base ring. Looks odd, as the tube is considerably under sized compared to the bullet.
What does Seller's book have to say on the topic?
The British Enfield cartridges were marked .575", relying on obturation and the expansion of the hollow base to fit the bore. There bullet was base up in the cartridge requiring the cartridge to be reversed and the bullet seated with the waxed paper around it.
Worked for them and the Confederacy who brought 60,000 Enfields into Fredericksburg.
In the current issue of BPCN, Steve Garbe gets into the topic of bore size bullets vs oversized. He claims to have gotten some of his best accuracy from bullets that were undersized for the bore.
He says he intends to get deeper into this topic in future issues.
I'm about to start a run of .45-70's for a newly acquired RB with a older Numrich barrel with 1 in 22" twist. I'm going to load both Lyman's 457193/405FP and 457125/500RN; some sized .457, some .459.
Going to be interesting to see if it makes any difference.
Todd
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"
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gmartin
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Rich and Todd, and others interested,
"Sharps Firearms" is more concerned with the diffilculties of contracting by rhe Govt. for said '63 type percussion cartridges, as well as the various types of containers and their printing that are still in existence.
Thomas's "Round Ball To Rimfire..." deals with the Sharps percussion cartridge in a similar but VERY much more detailed fashion. Much of the conversation detailed here revolves around the advantages and disadvantages of proprietory brands, some using linen, others paper, the correspondence between armory commanders and the lots they were or were not recieving, the noted complaints of recieving wrong bore sized balls, (bullets), and the experiences of frontier Army Officers with the durability of lots recieved. Also much more information, including what was deemed the best powder and charges, experimentaion with different cartridges to 300 yd., and fantastic photographs of ammunition and bullets used through out. Unless I missed something though, nowhere is the specific construction of a bullet as to its "Christmas Tree" configuration mentioned, the evolutionary changes from a ring tailed design and then (I believe) to flat based type the topic of bullet design.
A great period photo of Adam's "Cartridge Choker" with a completed round is an interesting side light, whereby a hand tool crimps the linen to the grease grooves of the bullet.
But why the taper of the bullet?
Someone more knowledgeable than I must answer that, esp. as I muddied the water in this thread quite some.
Gregg
"Sharps Firearms" is more concerned with the diffilculties of contracting by rhe Govt. for said '63 type percussion cartridges, as well as the various types of containers and their printing that are still in existence.
Thomas's "Round Ball To Rimfire..." deals with the Sharps percussion cartridge in a similar but VERY much more detailed fashion. Much of the conversation detailed here revolves around the advantages and disadvantages of proprietory brands, some using linen, others paper, the correspondence between armory commanders and the lots they were or were not recieving, the noted complaints of recieving wrong bore sized balls, (bullets), and the experiences of frontier Army Officers with the durability of lots recieved. Also much more information, including what was deemed the best powder and charges, experimentaion with different cartridges to 300 yd., and fantastic photographs of ammunition and bullets used through out. Unless I missed something though, nowhere is the specific construction of a bullet as to its "Christmas Tree" configuration mentioned, the evolutionary changes from a ring tailed design and then (I believe) to flat based type the topic of bullet design.
A great period photo of Adam's "Cartridge Choker" with a completed round is an interesting side light, whereby a hand tool crimps the linen to the grease grooves of the bullet.
But why the taper of the bullet?
Someone more knowledgeable than I must answer that, esp. as I muddied the water in this thread quite some.
Gregg
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HvyMtl
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Cleaning the 1863:
Well since this was kinda brought up again in the new year and I somehow missed the original post I figured i'd add my 2 cents for what its worth.
I clean my Ped. 1859 and my Farmer. 1863 the same way and thats with a steamer. On Sunday I took the block out of the Farmer. and stuck the tip of the steamer in the nipple ( it does not fit perfectly ) and pull the trigger. I then removed the the plate to check the opposite side and it was perfectly clean, I made sure everything was dry with a compressor. Next I put the nozzle of the steamer into the breech and pull the switch, everything comes out almost instantly it also dries very quickly but I run a couple of patches just to make sure. I then lube it up and put it back together. I used to take the block apart after steaming it but it was always perfectly clean so now I just blow it out to make sure its dry and then spray some lube into it. Oh, one must also hold the rifle so the sights are facing down when using the steamer in the breech and barrel, this way you don't have to worry about any steam or humidity going on the wood.
Happy New Year
Ken
P.S. I like to clean my rifles, I also use this method on the two 45/70's and the cases.
I clean my Ped. 1859 and my Farmer. 1863 the same way and thats with a steamer. On Sunday I took the block out of the Farmer. and stuck the tip of the steamer in the nipple ( it does not fit perfectly ) and pull the trigger. I then removed the the plate to check the opposite side and it was perfectly clean, I made sure everything was dry with a compressor. Next I put the nozzle of the steamer into the breech and pull the switch, everything comes out almost instantly it also dries very quickly but I run a couple of patches just to make sure. I then lube it up and put it back together. I used to take the block apart after steaming it but it was always perfectly clean so now I just blow it out to make sure its dry and then spray some lube into it. Oh, one must also hold the rifle so the sights are facing down when using the steamer in the breech and barrel, this way you don't have to worry about any steam or humidity going on the wood.
Happy New Year
Ken
P.S. I like to clean my rifles, I also use this method on the two 45/70's and the cases.
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Rich Siegel
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Ken,
Is the steamer you use like the one to clean carpets and rugs? Sounds like a great idea. I just shot my '63 yesterday and enjoyed the process of cleaning once again.
One interesting thing yesterday at the range. Three men were at the 100 yard line with me and one was introduced to me as having an outdoor show Sunday morning on ESPN2. His name is Tom but I didn't get his last name. He hunted Elk last fall with Hank Williams Jr. Anyway, I gave the carbine to Tom and his friends to shoot and they were impressed and enjoyed the shooting experience. I find that it's always fun to "educate" folks on the joys of shooting 1863 percussion guns. Of course, it would have been more fun to allow them the experience of cleaning the gun.
By the way, all three were inpressed with the fit, finish and wood on my 15 year old carbine. Good work Shiloh.
Rich
Is the steamer you use like the one to clean carpets and rugs? Sounds like a great idea. I just shot my '63 yesterday and enjoyed the process of cleaning once again.
One interesting thing yesterday at the range. Three men were at the 100 yard line with me and one was introduced to me as having an outdoor show Sunday morning on ESPN2. His name is Tom but I didn't get his last name. He hunted Elk last fall with Hank Williams Jr. Anyway, I gave the carbine to Tom and his friends to shoot and they were impressed and enjoyed the shooting experience. I find that it's always fun to "educate" folks on the joys of shooting 1863 percussion guns. Of course, it would have been more fun to allow them the experience of cleaning the gun.
By the way, all three were inpressed with the fit, finish and wood on my 15 year old carbine. Good work Shiloh.
Rich