)Brass Cases and Parts for 50 cal. Percussion Sharps by IAB
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Jean-Pierre
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:03 am
- Location: Belgium (Europe, right in the middle)
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Jean-Pierre
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:03 am
- Location: Belgium (Europe, right in the middle)
Thank's, I'll do that .
But for instance, I just found a book (a big one!) about old american guns,
There is a whole chapter about paper cartridges and I'v noticed some drawings of sharp's cartridges
I'll read that before making you waste your time with me
Thank you again for trying to help me, I'll sen you an MP very soon.
23:30pm here....time to go to bed , tomorrow is a hard-working day
But for instance, I just found a book (a big one!) about old american guns,
There is a whole chapter about paper cartridges and I'v noticed some drawings of sharp's cartridges
I'll read that before making you waste your time with me
Thank you again for trying to help me, I'll sen you an MP very soon.
23:30pm here....time to go to bed , tomorrow is a hard-working day
les bruits de bottes sont la conséquence du silence des pantoufles
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wrcook
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:09 pm
- Location: Maine
Jean-Pierre
Thanks for the information, now I know what is missing, the brass cases did not come with anything like that. It makes good sense. I will make one and try it. I like those brass cases because it is a nice way to shoot light loads that are very accurate at short range, which is just outside my back door. Doesn't chew up a lot of powder either. From what I understand, Rapine made a mould for the IAB that fit the cases, but they discontinued it a while ago.
Thanks again
Thanks for the information, now I know what is missing, the brass cases did not come with anything like that. It makes good sense. I will make one and try it. I like those brass cases because it is a nice way to shoot light loads that are very accurate at short range, which is just outside my back door. Doesn't chew up a lot of powder either. From what I understand, Rapine made a mould for the IAB that fit the cases, but they discontinued it a while ago.
Thanks again
Bill Cook
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wrcook
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:09 pm
- Location: Maine
Jean-Pierre
Thanks for the information, now I know what is missing, the brass cases did not come with anything like that. It makes good sense. I will make one and try it. I like those brass cases because it is a nice way to shoot light loads that are very accurate at short range, which is just outside my back door. Doesn't chew up a lot of powder either. From what I understand, Rapine made a mould for the IAB that fit the cases, but they discontinued it a while ago.
Thanks again
Thanks for the information, now I know what is missing, the brass cases did not come with anything like that. It makes good sense. I will make one and try it. I like those brass cases because it is a nice way to shoot light loads that are very accurate at short range, which is just outside my back door. Doesn't chew up a lot of powder either. From what I understand, Rapine made a mould for the IAB that fit the cases, but they discontinued it a while ago.
Thanks again
Bill Cook
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Jean-Pierre
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:03 am
- Location: Belgium (Europe, right in the middle)
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gmartin
- Posts: 361
- Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:55 pm
- Location: Boise Id
Hello Jean Pierre,
Check out Combustible Cartridge Information Needed in this forum for a discussion of various cartridge making options. I believe I was the last to speak. I do not loose load, MY preference is using a cartridge for which this gun is designed. I enjoy paper cartridge making and have done alot of informal research with different papers, fillers, loads, bullets and such and this can be found on this forum. I would not use a brass insert in my '63 carbine any more than I would throw my new grandson off a bridge. But sir, that is just me. I wish you luck. And wish you were here in S.W. Idaho with unlimited range to shoot.
Gregg
Check out Combustible Cartridge Information Needed in this forum for a discussion of various cartridge making options. I believe I was the last to speak. I do not loose load, MY preference is using a cartridge for which this gun is designed. I enjoy paper cartridge making and have done alot of informal research with different papers, fillers, loads, bullets and such and this can be found on this forum. I would not use a brass insert in my '63 carbine any more than I would throw my new grandson off a bridge. But sir, that is just me. I wish you luck. And wish you were here in S.W. Idaho with unlimited range to shoot.
Gregg
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Jean-Pierre
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:03 am
- Location: Belgium (Europe, right in the middle)
I don't know much about Idaho, but some of the forum's members have told me about and sent me some pictures.
It seems to be THE right place for long-range shooting
You don"t know how lucky you are, to live in a country where you may own guns and have plenty of room to use them.....
I have now read some advices about .54 sharp's cartridges ( and got some headache, trying to understand)
and I'v shot my first rounds (until recently, Only metallic cartridges were authorised at the military range where I shoot on sunday) without any copper ring wich is useless when using paper cartridges. (but essential with brass shells)
I'v had some "flyers" but I was able to achieve a group of +/- 3inch X 3 inch at 50m
This seems to be quite acceptable with a short carbine
I use bullets from a Lynx steel mould that drops a plain base projectile with two grooves,
under the bullet is a greased wad, then a cardboard wad (to protect the powder from the grease) and 45 grs of "mousquet" powder.
But some questions remains about the alloy I should use to cast theses bullets (pure lead? 2/3lead + 1/3 linotype?)
I also wonder about the famous "ring-tail" bullets; are they better than the plain base?
I hope I didn't make too much mistakes
It seems to be THE right place for long-range shooting
You don"t know how lucky you are, to live in a country where you may own guns and have plenty of room to use them.....
I have now read some advices about .54 sharp's cartridges ( and got some headache, trying to understand)
and I'v shot my first rounds (until recently, Only metallic cartridges were authorised at the military range where I shoot on sunday) without any copper ring wich is useless when using paper cartridges. (but essential with brass shells)
I'v had some "flyers" but I was able to achieve a group of +/- 3inch X 3 inch at 50m
This seems to be quite acceptable with a short carbine
I use bullets from a Lynx steel mould that drops a plain base projectile with two grooves,
under the bullet is a greased wad, then a cardboard wad (to protect the powder from the grease) and 45 grs of "mousquet" powder.
But some questions remains about the alloy I should use to cast theses bullets (pure lead? 2/3lead + 1/3 linotype?)
I also wonder about the famous "ring-tail" bullets; are they better than the plain base?
I hope I didn't make too much mistakes
les bruits de bottes sont la conséquence du silence des pantoufles
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gmartin
- Posts: 361
- Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:55 pm
- Location: Boise Id
Jean Pierre,
I am surprised that no one has given aid regarding ring-tailed bullets. Most of the competitive '63 shooters on this forum seem to use them. They are of a design from our Civil War. Well, actually prior to by at least 15 years when I think about it. They are a conical (traditional) bullet with a steep ogive and a smaller round base appearing from the larger base band. Usually, the paper cartridge was attatched to these, either by glue, tieing, or both. I am satisfied with glue on the bullets I use. My bore on my carbine is right at .540 and an NEI # 383 490 NS, such a bullet, shoots very well indeed, especially at 200 yards where my Shiloh Buffalo Slug, a wad-cutter type, falls short of optimum performance. The Buffalo though once shot a 1 1/4 by 1 1/2" group at 120 yds. Never to be replicated so I don't brag about this. This bullet was supplied by Bob Bayless to me for a trial, and it shot so well I bought the mould. My goodness, the ring-tail flies well, and is provided by a great number of makers. I think you would find them more than acceptable. Bob also was very pragmatic about the lead alloy he used. Almost heresay to me but he used straight wheel weights more often than not in his '63. Perhaps with a tiny bit of tin to aid filling of the mould's cavity. If it shot well for him, he was happy. I take that approach as well now but just for S.O.P. I like to start with nearly pure lead, a bit of tin. Speaking of this, a friend has this mould now, but if you would like some shooters, and it is allowed, I can manage to send you some bullets to try. Idaho has no supreme advantage over other almost every Western state and I meant to slight no one concerning range distances to shoot. It is just where I live, and has the third greatest amount of public land behind Alaska nd Nevada.
I like paper cartridges for their consistency and unbelieveable quickness to unable me to shoot again. I shot 2 black bear in my pre paper days and it's a good thing I didn't need to quickly reload.
Just some thoughts on your last post.
Best, Gregg
I am surprised that no one has given aid regarding ring-tailed bullets. Most of the competitive '63 shooters on this forum seem to use them. They are of a design from our Civil War. Well, actually prior to by at least 15 years when I think about it. They are a conical (traditional) bullet with a steep ogive and a smaller round base appearing from the larger base band. Usually, the paper cartridge was attatched to these, either by glue, tieing, or both. I am satisfied with glue on the bullets I use. My bore on my carbine is right at .540 and an NEI # 383 490 NS, such a bullet, shoots very well indeed, especially at 200 yards where my Shiloh Buffalo Slug, a wad-cutter type, falls short of optimum performance. The Buffalo though once shot a 1 1/4 by 1 1/2" group at 120 yds. Never to be replicated so I don't brag about this. This bullet was supplied by Bob Bayless to me for a trial, and it shot so well I bought the mould. My goodness, the ring-tail flies well, and is provided by a great number of makers. I think you would find them more than acceptable. Bob also was very pragmatic about the lead alloy he used. Almost heresay to me but he used straight wheel weights more often than not in his '63. Perhaps with a tiny bit of tin to aid filling of the mould's cavity. If it shot well for him, he was happy. I take that approach as well now but just for S.O.P. I like to start with nearly pure lead, a bit of tin. Speaking of this, a friend has this mould now, but if you would like some shooters, and it is allowed, I can manage to send you some bullets to try. Idaho has no supreme advantage over other almost every Western state and I meant to slight no one concerning range distances to shoot. It is just where I live, and has the third greatest amount of public land behind Alaska nd Nevada.
I like paper cartridges for their consistency and unbelieveable quickness to unable me to shoot again. I shot 2 black bear in my pre paper days and it's a good thing I didn't need to quickly reload.
Just some thoughts on your last post.
Best, Gregg
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Jean-Pierre
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:03 am
- Location: Belgium (Europe, right in the middle)
Thank you very much for sharing your experience; especially about ring-tail bullets.
I have planned to order such a mould but the only ones available here are italian made (from Pedersoli)
I'v been told they were of good quality, comparable to the Lyman's or RCBS... and several design are offered ; one with a very pointed form (said to be the original form) and an other one with a round nose; both have rings of increasing diameter
I exchanged some mails with Bobby Bayless about that (one of the most obliging person I ever met) unfortunatly, Bobby is gone forever now.
In his last e-mail, he told me he wanted to have one of his ring-tail moulds modified to become a plain base one.
he was hoping a lot from this modification...
And I just learned that Pedersoli has now a new mould, the same as the previous one but with a plain base..... what shall I choose?
As these bullets are big enough and don't have to expand, I guess I can use an alloy rather than pure lead
Does the hardness of a bullet make a big difference in a +/- fouled barrel?
I suppose lubrication is the most important point, but I don't know much about that, I'm using the beeswax+ vegetaline ( =french "crisco")+cooking oil receipt that Bobby gave me..... but, of course, any experienced advice is still welcome.
Thank you very much for proposing to send me some bullets but i'll have to manage with what is available here; I appreciate your proposition very much; thank's again.
I hope that I didn't bore you too much with my silly questions and that this was ..... let's say.....understandable JP
I have planned to order such a mould but the only ones available here are italian made (from Pedersoli)
I'v been told they were of good quality, comparable to the Lyman's or RCBS... and several design are offered ; one with a very pointed form (said to be the original form) and an other one with a round nose; both have rings of increasing diameter
I exchanged some mails with Bobby Bayless about that (one of the most obliging person I ever met) unfortunatly, Bobby is gone forever now.
In his last e-mail, he told me he wanted to have one of his ring-tail moulds modified to become a plain base one.
he was hoping a lot from this modification...
And I just learned that Pedersoli has now a new mould, the same as the previous one but with a plain base..... what shall I choose?
As these bullets are big enough and don't have to expand, I guess I can use an alloy rather than pure lead
Does the hardness of a bullet make a big difference in a +/- fouled barrel?
I suppose lubrication is the most important point, but I don't know much about that, I'm using the beeswax+ vegetaline ( =french "crisco")+cooking oil receipt that Bobby gave me..... but, of course, any experienced advice is still welcome.
Thank you very much for proposing to send me some bullets but i'll have to manage with what is available here; I appreciate your proposition very much; thank's again.
I hope that I didn't bore you too much with my silly questions and that this was ..... let's say.....understandable
JPles bruits de bottes sont la conséquence du silence des pantoufles
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gmartin
- Posts: 361
- Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:55 pm
- Location: Boise Id
Jean Pierre,
Bob was a very obliging person at that. I would not believe that the bullets we shoot from the '63 types would lead our barrels. Now, the BPCR fellows, with various bullets of different alloys and hardness would be able to tell you more. I keep hoping some of my sage elders who aided me anytime I have a question would pipe in here. I highly recommend that you slug your barrel and look at bellets that are perhaps .002 or so over bore. That is, a base band of .542 to .544 for a bore of .541 to .540. A ring tail is simply cosmetically traditional, or am I wrong? It may aid in some ballistic coefficient help. My friend Todd Birch from B.C Canada does very well with his rifle and a Lee and also a Lyman flat based bullet wrapped in an onion skin cartridge thast covers a Pyrodex .54 pellet. Very well. I do like the looks of a ring tail ball though (bullet.) Lube is of super importance I think to aid in preventing fouling and maybe leading. Mine is a slight modification of Rich Siegel's, I use 1/3 beeswax, or a bit more, almost 2/3 crisco, the remainder say 3% Murphie's Oil Soap and vegetable oil. Do look at NEI's website for bullets, and also Rapine's, though there are others. What to get? Test bullets prior is my main recommendation. Another good friend, soaked in New Jersey, found that a MINIE style bullet shot best in his Ped. '59 Berdan for years. He sent me some but I've so busy with work and another passion (fly fishing) that I haven't tested them. They look good.
Good luck! Gregg
Bob was a very obliging person at that. I would not believe that the bullets we shoot from the '63 types would lead our barrels. Now, the BPCR fellows, with various bullets of different alloys and hardness would be able to tell you more. I keep hoping some of my sage elders who aided me anytime I have a question would pipe in here. I highly recommend that you slug your barrel and look at bellets that are perhaps .002 or so over bore. That is, a base band of .542 to .544 for a bore of .541 to .540. A ring tail is simply cosmetically traditional, or am I wrong? It may aid in some ballistic coefficient help. My friend Todd Birch from B.C Canada does very well with his rifle and a Lee and also a Lyman flat based bullet wrapped in an onion skin cartridge thast covers a Pyrodex .54 pellet. Very well. I do like the looks of a ring tail ball though (bullet.) Lube is of super importance I think to aid in preventing fouling and maybe leading. Mine is a slight modification of Rich Siegel's, I use 1/3 beeswax, or a bit more, almost 2/3 crisco, the remainder say 3% Murphie's Oil Soap and vegetable oil. Do look at NEI's website for bullets, and also Rapine's, though there are others. What to get? Test bullets prior is my main recommendation. Another good friend, soaked in New Jersey, found that a MINIE style bullet shot best in his Ped. '59 Berdan for years. He sent me some but I've so busy with work and another passion (fly fishing) that I haven't tested them. They look good.
Good luck! Gregg