Brass Cases and Parts for 50 cal. Percussion Sharps by IAB

Support for the 1863 shooter. Discussions of powders, loads, bullets, etc.
tom webb
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Brass Cases and Parts for 50 cal. Percussion Sharps by IAB

Post by tom webb »

Does any one know where I can get the brass powder cases for 50 CAL.
percussion Sharps made by I.A.B? Also need a source for parts. I E-mailed the company but get no reply! Shilo & Taylors do not have them.

Thanks for any help
Tom Webb
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kamotz
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Post by kamotz »

try this. Im not sure if this is 50 cal. or not http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/accesso ... 70&lang=en
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HvyMtl
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Brass cases

Post by HvyMtl »

Hi, Tom

Just some information on these brass cases, I have one 1859 Ped. in 54 cal. and one Farmer. Shiloh in 54 cal. and the brass cases don't fit either.

Ken
wrcook
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Post by wrcook »

I have some brass cases for the IAB Sharps in .54 cal, and I ahve had nothing but trouble with them. They will sometimes be forced back into the breech block making it impossible to open without a lot of work. My suggestion would be to stick with paper cartridges.
Bill Cook
wrcook
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Post by wrcook »

I have some brass cases for the IAB Sharps in .54 cal, and I ahve had nothing but trouble with them. They will sometimes be forced back into the breech block making it impossible to open without a lot of work. My suggestion would be to stick with paper cartridges.
Bill Cook
Jean-Pierre
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Post by Jean-Pierre »

I think your forgot something,
when using these shells a brass ring (provided with the shells usually) should be placed in the breech block
This prevents the shell to enter the block even with full loads

I use to shoot these shells with no problem at all but it works only with round balls
maybe a special design of elongated bullet is avaible but I' v never seen any

I hope this was understandable :oops:
les bruits de bottes sont la conséquence du silence des pantoufles
HvyMtl
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Brass Shells:

Post by HvyMtl »

Hi Jean-Pierre,

I have never seen these brass shells offered with any brass ring and everytime I see a manufacturer offering them they have a conical type bullet in them. Maybe they haven't figured out the right way to do it over here. I do know that they won't fit into my 1859 54 cal. Ped. or the 1863 Farmingdale Shiloh Sharps. I think they are a great idea for hunting but of no use for anything else.

Ken
Jean-Pierre
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Post by Jean-Pierre »

fisrt of all, I hope you have already noticed tha tI have some problems with English (sorry, I do what I can :oops: ) this could cause some misunderstanding so, I apologize in advance :cry:

For instance, I am not talking about centerfire cartridges like the famous 45/70 but about brass tubes intended to be used as shells in a Sharps designed for paper cartridges.
These items have a conical hole where the primer pocket should be, they are very thick.
The collar of the ones I have accept round balls (maybe also the "ring tail" of a sharp's bullet, I have never tried)

They fit very well my old "IAB Marcheno" (after a little trimming) but are too big and too long for my Pedersoli

These shells allows me to shoot much more than with paper cartridges (much less fouling) and I can achieve groups of 10X10 cm at 50m (never had the opportunity to shoot a longer distance)
With this arrangement the closure of the breech is improved (no gas cas escape)
reloading is faster than with paper ammo (no residues to clean)

But the recoil can push them back in the breech block if the space left in this block is not filled . than everything is stuck (and I don't see how to solve this problem!)

The solution is this famous brass ring that has to be placed in the block, behind the plate. This way, when you shoot, the shell (or "tube" if you like) cannot penetrate the block's cavity, it stays in the rifle's chamber and all you need is a kind of hook ( that should come with the shells and the ring) for extracting the empty ammo. (can be done with a cleaning rod, via the muzzle)
This famous brass ring is a very simple item, that can be easily done on a lathe.

hoping I'v helped....JP
les bruits de bottes sont la conséquence du silence des pantoufles
HvyMtl
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Brass shells:

Post by HvyMtl »

Jean-Pierre,

Yes I understood you perfectly, your english is very good. As you, I am referring to the paper cartridge rifles. My metric conversion to standard isn't that good I did understand the 50 yd. + shooting distance. One of the other guys on this forum has a 50 cal. paper cartridge rifle and he uses Pyrodex pellets in 50 cal. to make his paper cartridges, he gets a very strong cartridge and it is very clean burning. I use a BP equivalent called Cleanshot, I have been able to take as many as 10 shots without cleaning and still get very good accuracy at 100 yds. The best I've been able to do at 100 yds. is a five shot group in less than one inch. We have found out that the type and size bullet used is very important for consistent accuracy. I am going to start to experiment with the use of a grease cookie to keep the fouling soft and be able to take more consecutive shots between cleaning the barrel.

Ken
Jean-Pierre
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Post by Jean-Pierre »

Well, I'll have alot to ask you about paper cartridges, right bullet design, and so on...... But I'd better check what has already been said on the forum about this.

But my first purpose was just to help the member who has so much troubles with his brass cartridges. as the solution is quite simple, I just couldn't keep silent (even if it's pretty hard for me to explain something in English :cry: )

In fact I'm quite happy with my little carbine; it is certainly not a rifle that would win a championship; the sights are what the originals were......the barrel is very short and the recoil quite impressive (for me at least)

but it's just a lot of fun to shoot. and I find the use of brass shells very convenient

There are five of us at the club, shooting with BP sharps, (we are not always welcome :cry: ) with more or less she same scores. As we are all beginners any good advice is welcome.
les bruits de bottes sont la conséquence du silence des pantoufles
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Ken Hartlein
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Post by Ken Hartlein »

Your english is better than mine! But hey, I'm from south Texas so you gotta overlook the way I talk. :lol: One of these days I'm gonna get one of them percussion guns so your discussion is very interesting.
Shiloh Rules!!
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Jean-Pierre
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Post by Jean-Pierre »

Thank you for your friendly considerations about my English, even if I haven't any illusion about that. I appreciate very much your "hospitality".

I have already tried to make some paper cartridges.
Just rollin' a couple of rounds is quite easy but making good and accurate ammo is something else..... cartridges that can group in less than one inch at 100 yards like HVYMTL's ones must have been made by a specialist... let's hope he will be kind enough to share some of his knowledge with us
les bruits de bottes sont la conséquence du silence des pantoufles
HvyMtl
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PC rifle:

Post by HvyMtl »

I would be more than happy to share info. about paper cartridges, however i'm probably not the right person to give this information as there are people on this forum with much more experience than I. I do however have much experience shooting this type of rifle. What I am trying to say is I just drop the bullet in followed by the powder and shoot, I don't usually make any cartridges. However I have experimented with a few different bullets. Our goal is to see just how far these rifles can be accurate on a consistant basis. I can tell you one thing none of us use a round ball as I believe these rifle were meant to shoot a conical type bullet.

Ken
Jean-Pierre
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Post by Jean-Pierre »

I absolutly agree with you about the use of round balls in a sharp.....these rifles are supposed to shoot more or less elongated bullets

But for some reasons (that's a long story, worth to be told.... elsewhere) Till now I just had to use brass shells (just to be allowed at the shooting range :evil: .....please don't laugh; it's a sad story)
and the only available projectiles theses shells would accept are round balls.

But things change here and we hope to be soon allowed to shoot almost everything (hopefully, let's pray...)

That's why i'm starting to ask about paper cartridges.

I'v already seen a guy shooting his sharps with loose powder; he placed carefully a bullet in the chamber; pushing it against the rifling with a short rod. Than he filled the chamber with powder and, before closing the action , he placed a piece of paper, with a little hole in the middle, so that te powder was held in place and did not enter the block
this was a very powerfull load, not very accurate (maybe a bad shooter?)

Having some experience with muzzeloading, I'm a bit suspicious about loading a sharps with loose powder; as an air gap behind the bullet has always been considered as more or less dangerous....I wonder about that even if it has always been done in the past

But let's come back to the paper cartridge......(I still don't know much about it.... :cry: )
I can make nitrated paper (being an old-old-old fashioned butcher, I still use some salpeter to salt the bacon)

and I have a 54 cal mold, plain base (a "lynx", made in France) supposed to be designed for breech-loadind (the gunmaker don't know a lot about black powder)
I also have a Minié one; a "LEE" that could maybe used.....?

Reading this forum I wonder about the use of a "ring tail bullet".....can someone tell me more about the use of such a bullet?

Thank you for tring to undersatnd me .... and for your help!
les bruits de bottes sont la conséquence du silence des pantoufles
HvyMtl
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Paper cartridges:

Post by HvyMtl »

Jean-Pierre,

Go on the 1863 support/shooting index page, go to the bottom where it says page 1,2. go to page two and you will find many posts about paper cartridge making.

Ken
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