Hello all
I am new to the site and have a couple of basic questions about the civil war period 1863 Sharps rifle.
The modern reproduction rifles are available in 50 and 54 calibers. The origianl civil war period Sharps were 52 caliber, why is this?
Was there a civil war period Sharps rifle that was muzzle loaded and not breech loadable?
Many thanks for your help. Justin
Sharps rifle question?
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Rich Siegel
- Posts: 610
- Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2002 7:53 am
- Location: Maine
Justin,
I don't know of any Civil War Sharps that was muzzleloading. During the CW, sharps shooters did use muzzleloading target rifles for sniper work but they were not Sharps rifles.
Frank Sellers, in his book "Sharps Firearms" states that the model 1855 slant breech Sharps carbine was made in 54 caliber as was the 1859 straight breech carbine(as well as 52 and 56 caliber). The '59 rifle and '63 rifle and carbine were in 52 caliber. But remember, sometimes the 52 caliber was really 54 caliber with the machining of the day. The Confederate Robinson carbine was 54 caliber also.
I guess, back when the Shiloh rifle company first started in New York, muzzleloading black powder rifles were being built in a few common calibers, 36, 40, 45, 50, 54, 58 and 62. For what ever reason, those were the most popular standard calibers so I would assume that Shiloh joined in with the 45, 50 and 54 caliber rifles.
Just my guess though.
Rich
I don't know of any Civil War Sharps that was muzzleloading. During the CW, sharps shooters did use muzzleloading target rifles for sniper work but they were not Sharps rifles.
Frank Sellers, in his book "Sharps Firearms" states that the model 1855 slant breech Sharps carbine was made in 54 caliber as was the 1859 straight breech carbine(as well as 52 and 56 caliber). The '59 rifle and '63 rifle and carbine were in 52 caliber. But remember, sometimes the 52 caliber was really 54 caliber with the machining of the day. The Confederate Robinson carbine was 54 caliber also.
I guess, back when the Shiloh rifle company first started in New York, muzzleloading black powder rifles were being built in a few common calibers, 36, 40, 45, 50, 54, 58 and 62. For what ever reason, those were the most popular standard calibers so I would assume that Shiloh joined in with the 45, 50 and 54 caliber rifles.
Just my guess though.
Rich
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justin
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:00 pm
Sharps rifle question
Hi Rich
Thanks for the through explanation on the questions. This helps me bunches! An interesting point you made about the 52 caliber was really .54 caliber with the machining of the day. The existence of the civil war period .54 Sharps carbine is totally rejected by bullet collectors mostly due to that there is no mention of then in archive documentation but in actuality it may have been a common occurrence to have a .54 bore and ammunition in use. I will have to get a hold of a copy of Sharps Firearms and see what kind of debate this generates. I really appreciate you response and help. Later Justin
Thanks for the through explanation on the questions. This helps me bunches! An interesting point you made about the 52 caliber was really .54 caliber with the machining of the day. The existence of the civil war period .54 Sharps carbine is totally rejected by bullet collectors mostly due to that there is no mention of then in archive documentation but in actuality it may have been a common occurrence to have a .54 bore and ammunition in use. I will have to get a hold of a copy of Sharps Firearms and see what kind of debate this generates. I really appreciate you response and help. Later Justin
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terry
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2003 8:49 pm
- Location: Phoenix
Hi Justin
The normal terminology for bullets prior to the Civil War was written as the number of round balls per pound of lead. The Sharps carbines of military size were called "32 bore" thus they were 32 round balls per pound of lead. When elongated conical bullets came into popular use this no longer was an accurate desigation because an elongated bullet weighted more than a round ball for the same bore size. Thus the word "caliber" came into use around the late 1850's. Problem is, do you measure the diameter of the lands or the diameter of the grooves? I have copies of a few hundred pages of the Sharps Rifle Manufacturing Companies records from the early 1860's. The terms "32 bore", "52 caliber", and "54 caliber" are ALL entered into the factory records by various workers. They all mean the same thing. This was somewhat confusing during the Civil War when military officers recieved 52 caliber ammo for the guns they thought were 54 caliber. The Sharps Company told them that they were the same. This is documented in the book "Round Ball to Rimfire" Volume 2. The 56 caliber guns were different and were a special run made specifically for the US Navy.
Hope this helps, Terry Behm
PS Today's shotguns are still sold by bore size, 12 guage is 12 bore.
The normal terminology for bullets prior to the Civil War was written as the number of round balls per pound of lead. The Sharps carbines of military size were called "32 bore" thus they were 32 round balls per pound of lead. When elongated conical bullets came into popular use this no longer was an accurate desigation because an elongated bullet weighted more than a round ball for the same bore size. Thus the word "caliber" came into use around the late 1850's. Problem is, do you measure the diameter of the lands or the diameter of the grooves? I have copies of a few hundred pages of the Sharps Rifle Manufacturing Companies records from the early 1860's. The terms "32 bore", "52 caliber", and "54 caliber" are ALL entered into the factory records by various workers. They all mean the same thing. This was somewhat confusing during the Civil War when military officers recieved 52 caliber ammo for the guns they thought were 54 caliber. The Sharps Company told them that they were the same. This is documented in the book "Round Ball to Rimfire" Volume 2. The 56 caliber guns were different and were a special run made specifically for the US Navy.
Hope this helps, Terry Behm
PS Today's shotguns are still sold by bore size, 12 guage is 12 bore.
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justin
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:00 pm
Sharps rifle question?
Hi Terry
Your explanation has been a world of help, thank you. I had thought that the bore numbers were created by Sharps for an unknown reason. Now I know the reason. Was there ever a standardization set for caliber designation between the lands and grooves diameter differences? I appreciate your help! Justin
Your explanation has been a world of help, thank you. I had thought that the bore numbers were created by Sharps for an unknown reason. Now I know the reason. Was there ever a standardization set for caliber designation between the lands and grooves diameter differences? I appreciate your help! Justin