To trade or not to trade .....

Todd Birch · Post by **Todd Birch** » Tue May 29, 2007 9:36 pm

I have someone wanting to trade me his Ballard Perfection #4 in 50-70 for my pristine Shiloh '63 .54 Sporter AND a Remington RB in 45-70.

The action of the Ballard was rebuilt with parts from the Ballard Rifle Co. in Cody and it has a Badger barrel. Wood is original and well preserved.
He claims to have nearly $3500 invested in it.

I'm tempted, as I love the 50-70 cartridge, but ......

Any comments?

Todd

DR308 · Post by **DR308** » Wed May 30, 2007 2:23 am

Todd: That really sounds quite steep of a price. I guess it comes down to how bad you want his! I have done that twice before. Once I regreted it very much, and once I did not. I wish I could be of more help. Good luck on your choice my friend. -----------J Dufresne

Boom Stick · Post by **Boom Stick** » Thu May 31, 2007 3:02 pm

Todd,

I don't know you Buddy, but if you'd make that trade, I have a few others for ya. That Ballard sounds beautiful, but sonds like you have some treasures there too or he wouldn't be offering the trade. My opinion is it sounds like he would come out ahead.

Hope I'm helpin.

Rich Siegel · Post by **Rich Siegel** » Thu May 31, 2007 3:44 pm

Todd,

In US dollars, your Shiloh would be worth $1200 to $1500. 1863 sporters are not as valuable as 1874 sporters. People just don't like the paper cartridges. I can't say about the Remington, is it a built up gun on an old military action. Quality of the wood work? Condition or barrel and action?

A new Ballard runs around $3000 to $3400, you can see that from their web site. It depends on how the action on the original Ballard looks, nicely case colored and is it a cast or forged action. Also, is the barrel original and what is it's condition? New, relined, polished blue?

Just some things to think about.

Rich

Todd Birch · Post by **Todd Birch** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:52 am

Boomstick/Rich

Thanks for the input, guys. I sent you an earlier response but it disappeared into the ether .....

I don't think it's the paper cartridges that people dislike about the '63s, it's their lack of long range performance. I regard mine as 200 yard rifles.

That's realistic field performance for most people, even with modern hunting rifles. In fact, I've taken 3rd in the 'iron sight class' in our club 'hunting rifle' matches out to 200 yds with my Military '63. We shoot off hand and use field positions (slings, no bipods) and the results on paper are dismal.
These same guys will look you in the eye and tell you they regularly shoot game at 400-500 yards.

As for the Ballard, it has a new Badger barrel, blued action, original wood in good shape.

My RB has a 28" Numrich barrel (1x22" twist) on a 1902 7mm action, original 'Pancho Villa' butt stock, MVA 'Rough & Ready' rear, Beeches front.

The Ballard appeals, but I look at my Plain Jane '63 Sporter and see the Shiloh quality in it and get that feeling in my gut ......

Todd

OLReliable · Post by **OLReliable** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:35 am

Todd,

I love shooting my 54 cal Shiloh 63 Sporter, and one of my favorite "utility" rifles is a rebarreled roller ..... but each can be replaced in time. A good Ballard, on the other hand is a real find, since they don't turn up as often. I'd go for it.

Todd Birch · Post by **Todd Birch** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:03 pm

OlReliable

Those were my thoughts as well when I became aware of the Ballard. I've only seen a Ballard once or twice and never handled one. I've gotta make my mind or git off'n the pot PDQ.

My RB is nothing special, but the Shiloh '63 is, well, a Shiloh, which makes it special.

When you shoot your '63 Sporter, what bullet and load are you shooting?
I recently ordered an over size .54 Minie mould that should bump up as per a .58 Minie cast out of soft lead.
Up to now I've been shooting the original 'Christmas Tree' bullet which the rifle groups well.

Todd

OLReliable · Post by **OLReliable** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:35 pm

Todd,

My 54 cal Shiloh 1863 likes a Rapine #544-415 plain base bullet dropped into the chamber, followed by a dry 58 cal Ox-Yoke felt wad, followed by a dowel-formed 2-inch-long (finished length) paper charge tube having a 54 cal fiber wad glued to the forward end, and filled with 100g Fg. I pan lube the bullet with my own home brew.

This combo can consistently put 10 shots into the black at 100 yards using barrel sights.

Life is Good.

Todd Birch · Post by **Todd Birch** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:16 am

OLR

100 grs FFg !!! How's the recoil? The chamber in my .54 Sporter would hold the same. I've only shot it with 80 grs.

My '63 .50 Military Rifle eats 60 grs in a paper cartridge and same in the form of a .54 60 gr Pyrodex pellet rolled with a sized/lubed bullet. Recoil is nil.

I like your idea of using wads in the tube and behind the bullet. Fouling must be minimal.

Todd

OLReliable · Post by **OLReliable** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:47 pm

Todd Birch wrote:OLR

100 grs FFg !!! How's the recoil? The chamber in my .54 Sporter would hold the same. I've only shot it with 80 grs.

I like your idea of using wads in the tube and behind the bullet. Fouling must be minimal.

Todd

I use a leather lace-on recoil pad and load with Fg powder instead of FFg.
Felt recoil using 100g of Fg is modest but tolerable; the big grin on my face sometimes makes my cheeks hurt, but I think it's worth it in the long run.

BTW - The wads help a lot to reduce/control fouling.

Todd Birch · Post by **Todd Birch** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:27 pm

OLR

I have four of those leather lace on butt pads. I like everything about them except the price. However, they sure do take the 'ouch!' out of shooting a crescent butt plate.
A trifle more authentic than a built in recoil reducer, but I'd better not go there .....

Never quite understoood the need to shoot a rifle with punishing recoil, BPC or modern magnoon. Had a pal who owned several BPCRs including a Shiloh 45-120. It was for sale.

I asked him why such a brute? answer - "I was a lot younger at the time, and it seemed like a good idea." His current shooters were all in 38-55, and he shot them a lot. He towered over me and had at least 50 lbs on me.

Todd

klw · Post by **klw** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:57 pm

For what it is worth, Ballard's just don't sell. I've had one of GunsAmerica forever. There is no interest. Not in new ones nor old ones. Why I don't know but... I wouldn't trade for one.

Todd Birch · Post by **Todd Birch** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:28 am

Thanks for the input, KLW.

Yeah, that seems to be the general concensus on Ballards.

There is a similar site to GunsAmerica in Canada called CanadianGunNutz and an original .38 RF/CF Ballard is being offered and going begging.

They don't seem to have the cachet and appeal of the Sharps and RBs.

Todd

Slim Pickens · Post by **Slim Pickens** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:13 pm

Was the Ballard a popular rifle in its time as a hunting Bufalo Gun or as a Creedmore competitor. Was it a strong action ,I read that MR. Pope of barrel making fame used to set the headspace on them by strategically banging the reciever with a hammer. Call me nuts but I woulndnt do it while loaded and cocked.

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