casting and bullet weight
-
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:21 pm
- Location: Arizona
casting and bullet weight
Began casting this past weekend, with a Lyman 457132DV new mold, 20:1 lead, Waage pot, marvelux etc. Let the lead temp settle at 750 and poured at least 100 before bullets looked decent. Had some problems with the sprue plate and the base of the bullets but then the cutoffs started coming out real good. Selected 40 that thought were GREAT for the 1st time. Weighed them all and they ranged from 525 to 227g.
Then looked up the mold again and was suspose to cast 535g ?? Is the lower weight because of the 20:1 lead ratio? Sure dont see anything adnormal with the bullets? Lastly since Im trying to develop techniques in all categories, what tollerance should I shoot for with bullet weight, e.g. <1g, 2g,???
Thanks as usual
bo
Then looked up the mold again and was suspose to cast 535g ?? Is the lower weight because of the 20:1 lead ratio? Sure dont see anything adnormal with the bullets? Lastly since Im trying to develop techniques in all categories, what tollerance should I shoot for with bullet weight, e.g. <1g, 2g,???
Thanks as usual
bo
A craftsman makes his own schedule!
-
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 8:28 am
- Location: North Western, Virginia
Bo,
The Lyman 457132 I had cast bullets at 532grs with a 30:1 mix. I would guess the 20:1 mix may be a little lighter in weight. I immediately replaced my Lyman sprue plate with a 3/16-1/4 " sprue plate from Bob Roller in Huntington W.Va ( 304-429-2454 ) ( $ 15.00 ) which enabled the Lyman mold to cast better. I'm using Paul Jones molds now and the 545gr creedmoor casts 545gr bullets with a 30:1 mix. I separate the bullets into two groups. 545.0 - 545.9 grs and 546.0 - 546.9grs. 90 % of the time my bullets are coming out of the mold at 545.3 - 545.8 grs.
100 bullets casted before you get some keepers is alot. I set my mold on the pot plate to pre-heat when the melt is heating up and usually start getting keepers after the 12th to 15th bullet. From then on, if I don't break my rhythm when casting, 99 % are keepers in the 545 gr. weight range.
When I get a new mold, I check the best looking bullets after I have casted the first batch by clamping the nose in the end of a vise at approximately 45 degrees and melt the base up to the nose with a propane torch to check for air bubbles in the bullet. With safety glasses on of course, you can see any air bubbles pop as the melt progresses to the nose of the bullet. Air bubbles of course, are not desirable and will lessen your weight and not help accuracy any. If you don't have a torch, you can vise the bullet nose and file the base with a bastard file to show any air bubbles in the bullet. I started that way but no longer have the patience. Weigh your bullets before you start to check for irregularities with the torch or file. The heaviest bullet you weigh with out any internal air bubbles will be the heaviest weight of the bullet with the mix you are using. As far as what range of bullets you should keep, that's going to be up to you and most likely determined by you at the range.
You mentioned you are casting at 750 degrees. I find my best casting temp for MY 30 : 1 mix is 780 - 800 degrees.
Enjoy your casting experiences and hope this may help some. Bob
The Lyman 457132 I had cast bullets at 532grs with a 30:1 mix. I would guess the 20:1 mix may be a little lighter in weight. I immediately replaced my Lyman sprue plate with a 3/16-1/4 " sprue plate from Bob Roller in Huntington W.Va ( 304-429-2454 ) ( $ 15.00 ) which enabled the Lyman mold to cast better. I'm using Paul Jones molds now and the 545gr creedmoor casts 545gr bullets with a 30:1 mix. I separate the bullets into two groups. 545.0 - 545.9 grs and 546.0 - 546.9grs. 90 % of the time my bullets are coming out of the mold at 545.3 - 545.8 grs.
100 bullets casted before you get some keepers is alot. I set my mold on the pot plate to pre-heat when the melt is heating up and usually start getting keepers after the 12th to 15th bullet. From then on, if I don't break my rhythm when casting, 99 % are keepers in the 545 gr. weight range.
When I get a new mold, I check the best looking bullets after I have casted the first batch by clamping the nose in the end of a vise at approximately 45 degrees and melt the base up to the nose with a propane torch to check for air bubbles in the bullet. With safety glasses on of course, you can see any air bubbles pop as the melt progresses to the nose of the bullet. Air bubbles of course, are not desirable and will lessen your weight and not help accuracy any. If you don't have a torch, you can vise the bullet nose and file the base with a bastard file to show any air bubbles in the bullet. I started that way but no longer have the patience. Weigh your bullets before you start to check for irregularities with the torch or file. The heaviest bullet you weigh with out any internal air bubbles will be the heaviest weight of the bullet with the mix you are using. As far as what range of bullets you should keep, that's going to be up to you and most likely determined by you at the range.
You mentioned you are casting at 750 degrees. I find my best casting temp for MY 30 : 1 mix is 780 - 800 degrees.
Enjoy your casting experiences and hope this may help some. Bob
- Omaha Poke
- Posts: 972
- Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 6:52 pm
- Location: Edmonds, WA
Bo, one of the first things that I would do is to throw away the Marvellux!! The only thing it is going to do for you will be to clog up your ladle, skiming tools, etc. It is almost impossible to get off of these items when it builds up, and it draws moisture. You will have a much better and cleaner result if you only occaisionally flux with some type of wax. I usually use pieces of candles that my wife discards. A small piece works great, and helps to keep your tools clean and in good shape.
Others may have had better luck with Marvellux especially if they use a bottom pour pot. I have not. Hope this helps your casting. Randy
PS I have been casting for over 30 years, and some of these things take a while to learn without advice.
Others may have had better luck with Marvellux especially if they use a bottom pour pot. I have not. Hope this helps your casting. Randy
PS I have been casting for over 30 years, and some of these things take a while to learn without advice.
Randy Ruwe
-
- Posts: 132
- Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 7:09 pm
- Location: Spokane, WA
Bo,
Once you get the hang of it you should be able to get at least 60 keepers out of 70 cast. I get that out of a 20 lb Lee without absolutely scraping the bottom of the barrel. You might be able to get a few more as the Waage is a little bigger. Don't let Omaha talk you out of using Marvelux. The trick is not using too much. A little bit of it goes a long way. Every body I've ever talked to who has had problems with it tries to use it in about the same volume they would use wax. That is WAY too much. Just a small amount sprinkled in the middle of your melt and then stirred in for at least a minute will do a good job. Good luck.
LJ
Once you get the hang of it you should be able to get at least 60 keepers out of 70 cast. I get that out of a 20 lb Lee without absolutely scraping the bottom of the barrel. You might be able to get a few more as the Waage is a little bigger. Don't let Omaha talk you out of using Marvelux. The trick is not using too much. A little bit of it goes a long way. Every body I've ever talked to who has had problems with it tries to use it in about the same volume they would use wax. That is WAY too much. Just a small amount sprinkled in the middle of your melt and then stirred in for at least a minute will do a good job. Good luck.
LJ
- Omaha Poke
- Posts: 972
- Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 6:52 pm
- Location: Edmonds, WA
LJ, I have tried using as little Marvellux as I could, and tried using an adequate amount to flux the pot. The stuff just doesn't work. By that, I mean that it may flux the lead alloy in the pot, but you get a build up of crud on all your ladles, tools, etc.
A much easier and cleaner way to cast is to only flux right after the alloy has first melted, then after that just skim the oxidized metal to the side of the pot while pouring your bullets. When you are ready to add more alloy, add the alloy, and as soon as it is melted add a small piece of wax. I usually have a match or lighter on hand to ignite the melted wax if it doesn't combust spontaneously.
My tools and pot remain clean and not cruded up like when using that "M" stuff. LJ if you have good results with it you will be the first person in over 30 years that I have ever met that had good results using it while ladle pouring. I have heard and read that it works ok as a flux while bottom pouring, but I gave that up years ago.
I am glad that it works for you, and if I had known that I would have saved about 3/4 of a can that I had and would have given it to you.
We'll have to get together and have a casting session one of these days.
I am going to try to make the Custer shoot this month, maybe I will see you there. Best, Randy
A much easier and cleaner way to cast is to only flux right after the alloy has first melted, then after that just skim the oxidized metal to the side of the pot while pouring your bullets. When you are ready to add more alloy, add the alloy, and as soon as it is melted add a small piece of wax. I usually have a match or lighter on hand to ignite the melted wax if it doesn't combust spontaneously.
My tools and pot remain clean and not cruded up like when using that "M" stuff. LJ if you have good results with it you will be the first person in over 30 years that I have ever met that had good results using it while ladle pouring. I have heard and read that it works ok as a flux while bottom pouring, but I gave that up years ago.
I am glad that it works for you, and if I had known that I would have saved about 3/4 of a can that I had and would have given it to you.
We'll have to get together and have a casting session one of these days.
I am going to try to make the Custer shoot this month, maybe I will see you there. Best, Randy
Randy Ruwe
- Lee Stone
- Posts: 2817
- Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 2:27 pm
- Location: Lacombe, Louisiana, USA
- Contact:
-
- Posts: 132
- Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 7:09 pm
- Location: Spokane, WA
- Omaha Poke
- Posts: 972
- Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 6:52 pm
- Location: Edmonds, WA
LJ, for some reason, I thought the shoot was the last Sunday of the month, not the 4th. I was kicking myself all week when I realized that!! I will be at Machias for sure on the 6th of Dec and at Custer on the 4TH SUNDAY OF THE MONTH Mad at my self for not being more attentive to things.
At Machias I am going to bring my Buffalo rifle to shoot. The Ped. John Bodine RB in .45-90. An actual buff killer!!! Haven't shot it beyond 200 yds yet, so it will be another fun shoot for me!!
At Paul Bunyan I bought one of Ron Heilman's globe and spirt level front sights, and installed it on my Shiloh LRE this week. I am anxious to give it a try also. That ball and post that comes with the LRE is probably great for hunting, but the pitts for good accuracy at 600 yds. Especially when you can't see the target to begin with like at PB. Happy Thanksgiving Larry, and see you at Machias. Randy
At Machias I am going to bring my Buffalo rifle to shoot. The Ped. John Bodine RB in .45-90. An actual buff killer!!! Haven't shot it beyond 200 yds yet, so it will be another fun shoot for me!!
At Paul Bunyan I bought one of Ron Heilman's globe and spirt level front sights, and installed it on my Shiloh LRE this week. I am anxious to give it a try also. That ball and post that comes with the LRE is probably great for hunting, but the pitts for good accuracy at 600 yds. Especially when you can't see the target to begin with like at PB. Happy Thanksgiving Larry, and see you at Machias. Randy
Randy Ruwe
-
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:21 pm
- Location: Arizona
Bob, Omaha, LJ and of course Lee, appreciate all the input. One thing I can do is absorb alot of information, but that don't replace experience, e.g, 30- yrs Vs 6 mo in BPCR reloading. Sometimes depressing, but then you got to start somewhere right? Least in this most recent endevor, people seem willing to help and laugh a little also, which is good
Bo
Bo
A craftsman makes his own schedule!
- Omaha Poke
- Posts: 972
- Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 6:52 pm
- Location: Edmonds, WA
LJ, yes, I got it about a month before my Buffalo hunt, and worked up a decent load. It is a fun rifle and seems to be very accurate. At least out to two hundred. I will find out what it will do at 500 this Sat at Machias. I am going to try another bullet and load it it this Weds and see which one is the most accurate. What bullet and load are you using in yours? Randy
Randy Ruwe
-
- Posts: 132
- Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 7:09 pm
- Location: Spokane, WA
Randy,
Got mine this last spring and it shot the first load I put together so well, I have never done any more load testing on it. I use Buffalo Arms stretched Remington brass, CCI BR2 primers, 85 grns Swiss 1 1/2, King .030 fiber wad with a news print wad above the fiber, and an NEI 349c loaded to a COL of 3.30". This compresses the Swiss about .070". I did discover that this load was sensitive to the number of grooves lubed on the bullet. This rifle with a 34" barrel likes 5 grooves lubed, where my Browning 45-70 with a 30" barrel likes 4.
LJ
Got mine this last spring and it shot the first load I put together so well, I have never done any more load testing on it. I use Buffalo Arms stretched Remington brass, CCI BR2 primers, 85 grns Swiss 1 1/2, King .030 fiber wad with a news print wad above the fiber, and an NEI 349c loaded to a COL of 3.30". This compresses the Swiss about .070". I did discover that this load was sensitive to the number of grooves lubed on the bullet. This rifle with a 34" barrel likes 5 grooves lubed, where my Browning 45-70 with a 30" barrel likes 4.
LJ
- Omaha Poke
- Posts: 972
- Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 6:52 pm
- Location: Edmonds, WA
LJ, what is the weight of that NEI bullet? I used a 530 gr (#457525) bullet for my buffalo hunt, and tomorrow I am going to chrono it and a Paul Jones 572 gr AA Smerker bullet, both cast from 30-1 alloy, and both over 80 grs of Goex Ctg in Starline cases with CCI #210 LG Rifle primers, full length sized, .030 Poly wad. OAL of the Rapine is 3.1875 and the Jones is 3.272. Whichever one is the most accurate tomorrow, I will be loading for Machias for this Sat's match.
I wish I could have been able to go to the Pala, CA match which is also this weekend, but family obligations made that out of the question.
I know one thing however, I have to come up with a better system or record keeping for my loads, sight settings, rounds fired, etc. I have small books laying all over the house, and continually am searching for the one I need. I think it is just a matter of not being so disorganized!!
Well hope to see you Sat, Randy
I wish I could have been able to go to the Pala, CA match which is also this weekend, but family obligations made that out of the question.
I know one thing however, I have to come up with a better system or record keeping for my loads, sight settings, rounds fired, etc. I have small books laying all over the house, and continually am searching for the one I need. I think it is just a matter of not being so disorganized!!
Well hope to see you Sat, Randy
Randy Ruwe