Furgeson rifle

[Omak Cowboy]

Well down the road, after another Sharps I'd like to find a Fergeson. Someone on the list reccomended "The Rifle Shop" as a resource for the parts. Seems the parts are in the $2,000 range.
My question is: has anyone here shot one of these rifles? If so what were the experiences on quality and accuracy ?

Think I'd like a trap door down the road too...if I live long enough to afford all this stuff
Omak

[8iowa]

Omak:
If you are referring to the British Ferguson, the breech loader that they used briefly in the Rev. War, I usually see modern replicas at the Baltimore Gun Show. As I recall they are very well made and usually expensive.

This show is devoted to pre 1898 firearms and is huge, over 1000 tables. It will be held on March 20 -21.

I'll be glad to get information for you if you are interested.

[Ray Newman]

Omak & others: if you’re considering a Trapdoor, I would suggest that you first purchase the “Trapdoor Springfield” by Waite & Ernst, Beinfeld Publications, 1980. ISBN 0-917714-20-2. The cost is ‘bout US $35-40.00. Not a cheap book, but if you familiarize yourself w/ it, it will save you money & from the possibility of buying a fake carbine made from a cut-down rifle @ an “authentic carbine” price, or an overly inflated priced parts rifle. As always, CAVEAT EMPTOR!

The appendices give the armoury measurements & specs for the trapdoor rifle & carbine. For example, the rifle sight is marked w/ an “R”; the carbine a “C”. I was once looking @ a carbine that seemed in good shape--almost too good--, but was approaching the high $$$ price. When I asked the allegedly knowledgeable seller what the “R” on the sight meant, he replied “an inspector’s mark“. When I asked If I could measure the barrel dia to determine if it was a cut-down rifle, he hemmed & hawed, made some comment about how he was brokering it for an old collector’s widow, sold-as-is, etc.

W/ the increase of cowboy action shooting participation, the price of an authentic, abused, &/or not abused T-door has skyrocketed. I keep hearing about the US $400.00 100% GI issue & un-issued rifle, but I haven’t see one for that price in years. Dealers & sellers also watch the auctions & check the blue books too

CAVEAT EMPTOR!…..

http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/

http://www.trapdoors.com/

[Rich Siegel]

If memory serves me, a company in Indiana made or is making the Furgeson flintlock. I think their name is Narragansett Arms (I know, they should be in Rhode Island). I beleive they also make high quality British Brown Bess muskets that cost around $2000.

[Omak Cowboy]

However the name is spelled, I got a call from the fellow who assembles them for "The Rifle Shoppe". Seems the gun is about $1,500.

Now the interesting thing as it relates to what I have read here is he tells me the gun fouls after ten shots and that accuracy using Swiss seems to be in the 3 inch range at 100yds. Now this makes me wonder about powder as it looks like it is just poured in rather than using a drop tube method ( Just dawned on me that muzzel loaders have a built in drop tube - duh! )

Anyway, I wonder about lubes too and about blowing down the barrel.

Seems to me slugging the barrel might not be a poor idea either along with trying a bullet and not a ball to see what happens. Reading that heavier weights on bullets seem to produce more accuracy is perhaps another experiement worth while.

Maybe what I read here and the wisdom accumulated on Sharps has an application to a Fergson?

Oh and I'm all happied up today as I have been looking for a 30 inch drop tube but nothing to be found. Ah Ha...While driving back from downtown Seattle I came past Alaska Copper inc ..and they cut a piece of 3/8 od straight copper tube ( the other stuff I've seen has been in a coil ..now "the music may go roung and round and come out here, but it's kind of hard to get the powder to go in circles

I just love inspiration...course it seems to take me longer and longer to get it..

Omak

[Lee Stone]

Omak,

I do not mean this as a facetious question. I would really like to know. If you were to slug the barrel of a muzzel loader, how do you get the slug out intact. I would think if one used a bullet worm to get it out the slug would be deformed and thus not of much use.

[Coal Creek Davis]

Lee

You take the breech plug out.

[Omak Cowboy]

The Fergeson is a breach loading flintlock invented in 1774 by Col Patrick Fergeson, a Scot who was part of the Brit army. Col. Fergeson had at one point General Washington in his sights and refused to fire because the General's back was turned and he would not shoot a man in the back. One shot could have changed the course of not only the war, but of history.
Omak

[Lee Stone]

Coal,
Thank you. And I appologize for the stupic question.

[Omak Cowboy]

Lee, not at all a stupid question. There is no reason to think a flintlock would be a breechloader. To my knowlege the Furgeson is the only one which was. Col Fergeson still is a little know personage and at least 50 years ahead of his time.
Omak

[Jim Watson]

[quote="Omak Cowboy"]There is no reason to think a flintlock would be a breechloader. To my knowlege the Furgeson is the only one which was. [/quote]

Hall.

[Coal Creek Davis]

No apology needed Lee, taking the breach plug out of a muzzleloader just to slug it is not an everyday (let alone a every lifetime) occurrence.

The Furguson Rifle may be more legend than fact. If you want to know more about the Furguson rifle and a test done on a new rifle read the May 1987 American Rifleman article “Return of the Ferguson Rifle”.
I had a chance to handle one of these fine rifles at Friendship Indiana and they truly are works of art and I would never think to discourage anyone form colleting one. But do they shoot as the legend indicates? Here is a small excerpt from the article. “In the spring of 1776 the shooting accomplishments of a young Scottish captain named Patrick Ferguson came to the attention of the British War Office. Early in June Ferguson was invited to demonstrate his rifle for several ranking officers at Woolwich Arsenal. The day was stormy (probably to the captain’s favor as it turned out). Ferguson fired at a rate of five shots per minute at a 200-yd. Target. Then at a stepped-up rate, he fired six shots a minute, missing that target only three times in 30 shots. Next, Ferguson advanced at the standard infantry advance of four miles an hour firing four shots a minute until he was at point-blank range to the target. At the top of his demonstration, lying prone on the ground, Ferguson fired a perfect bullseye.” *

That’s the legend, here is the fact.

“Accuracy was fair for the first few shots, but because of the rapid buildup of powder fouling in the rifling, it quickly deteriorated. I was shooting at a 100-yd target set up at 50 yds., and after about a dozen shots, accuracy was so bad the target was missed completely two out of the last five shots. Even with petroleum jelly on the threads, I found the threaded plug increasingly difficult to turn, Pilgrim Pieces (rifles manufacturer) recommends lubricating the screw plug with SAE 30 weight motor oil between shots. This certainly helped”. *

“After the first shooting session, I ran a bronze bore brush down the barrel between shots, and this certainly improved the accuracy. Five shots at 50 yds. averaged slightly over 6”. This is hardly good accuracy, but this could be the result of the very fast one turn in 30” twist. Cleaning the bore and lubing the screw plug between shots make shooting very slow.” *

* “Return of the Furguson Rifle” American Rifleman May 1987.

[Omak Cowboy]

Coal Creek,
Thank you for the quotes from "The American Rifleman' i knew I had read a review somewhere and remembered it as you quote..but not for love or money could I remember the date.

Now, my original question stands. I shot bp many years ago..circa 1968 or so and recall all the buildup in the bore and actions. It wasn't until I started reading these posts that the idea of using the old lubes came to me. The idea of many rounds with no problems simply wasn't part of BP shooting in the late 60s and early 70s.

So, I have to wonder what the accuracy and behaviour of the gun would be if we used something like DGL and blew into the barrel like we do with Sharps? Maybe the Col. knew something we until reciently had forgotten all about?
Omak

[Amigo]

Hi

I think you hit the nail on the head so to speak about your comment that the reason of such poor accuracy of the Ferguson replica by Pilgrimarms might be attributed due to the 1 in 30 twist of the bore.
The parts being made by the Rifle Shoppe however completely
duplicate the original by having a 1 in 56 twist which is much more conducive to round ball shooting.Also Narrangansset Armes sells a lube
which helps keep the action from binding.The story relating to Ferguson
testing his rifle for the army is not a myth actually it is believed that
testing his rifle on a damp and rainy day was in fact to his benefit as the dampness kept the fouling down thus keeping his gun from binding as
while at the range if you dribble a little water on the action it will help keep the fouling soft and help with the fouling.
There was a test of firing the Ferguson in the States done in the Fifties
or Sixties with an original and the gun proved very accrurate, though it
did bind up after about 10 shots I believe.
One other thing I have read that in shooting the Ferguson that if you
put some lead balls in a pot of boiling water for a bit then drop them in a
pan a lube that for some reason the lead seems to absorb a bit of the lube
and this helps greatly with keeping the fouling down in the board.
I don t believe that the Ferguson was perfect it has its problems like
it is prone to cracking the stock due to the expanse of wood needed to be removed for the action( though I plan to use a bedding compound in the stock of my Ferguson when I have it completed to try to minimize this
while building my Ferguson, whenever I get the time to finish it) but if
a person has to time to play with it, which afterall is the real fun with shooting any gun ,getting it to shoot right, then you wil be suprised on just
how well it will perform.


Jeff :lol: