Bore Butter and seasoning a barrel

Stan Koslow · Post by **Stan Koslow** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:01 pm

Josh, with respect,

Apparently you believe that most all muzzle loaders use a patch. A patch and its integrity is more subjected to a rough bore/ fowling than a piece of lead. Especially when lowered with preasures up to 80 pounds.

There is another whole side to the ML disipline, its called a "slug gun". And if you have never seen one shoot I will tell you that there are many of us today who will place their money on the table against a BP breach loader. A MOA slug rifle will not lift one eye brow on the line, better cut that in half. I witnessed one group where the 5th shot could not be witnessed by the line judges. One 1/4 MOA click on the Olympic Redfields placed the next shot where all could witness from the line. It was a 1/4 inch from the started group. No kidding and scarey. Ever think of burning between 150 to 250 grains of two F or more? There's preasure and heat. Teflon has made its way in that game. The groups achieved can scare you. Many say that there is no more accurate way to dispense a accurate projectile, than one which is swaged down the barrel to its resting place. I happen to concur with that theory.

If you don't like cast iron, try tempered steel. Your bore will never have the flakey texture because it isn't cast iron. I don't think we will ever see a modern shooter with a cast iron barrel. There is no such thing as a perfect bore, when very closely examined. Your right, most of us do this ritual called the fowling shot to cover up those imperfections. The lube simply hides and seals the imperfections, keeps the byproduct workable and the vessel at a constant condition. As long as it does this and doesn't harm the bore, you have a good combination. Its just that simple. BP is BP, what ever you wish to stuff it in.

PS. Peroxide as I know only helps bubble out contamination or porosity found in the BP byproduct in the steel pores. It is now used to disengage oil from rocks in order to decontaminate. I have no knowledge if its worth in regard to copper fowling. My "hunch" is that it won't. I don't shoot copper. Thats my two bits.

Tasmanian Rebel · Post by **Tasmanian Rebel** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:36 pm

Stan,
Do you think this Kroil I'm using with this second gun is doing such a good job of cleaning that the pores of the steel are not "sealed"? Man all the responses here have REALLY got me wondering now LOL. Seems like people are using different substances and getting good results. I can't argue with how the first gun shoots with the Bore Butter history. It gets NO rust after a wet patch goes down the bore-even after I quit using the Butter and using the Kroil. It shoots so well it's scary. The second gun gets a smudge of rust color on the patch immediately following the wet patch but no more rust after a dry patch is run through it. After it is stored I run a patch throught it the next day or so and it is perfectly clean. My admittedly uneducated guess is that the Kroil is doing a super job of cleaning to the point of having naked steel after a few rounds go through the barrel and the wet patch treatment.

Stan Koslow · Post by **Stan Koslow** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:50 pm

Rebel,

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you got to pet (patch) her a couple times a week, what the hey. You got confidence and money can't buy that. We spend more time laying blame on our weapons for inaccuracy than we do spending time on ourselves. A sub MOA rifle is only a 3MOA rifle with a 3 MOA shooter. Stick with what works for you and let the rest go. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.

Josh A. · Post by **Josh A.** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:48 am

I am not sure what the story of slug guns has to do with this topic. Are you saying that a guy that shoots a 1/4moa slug gun has done this seasoning thing with his rifle?

Didn't mean to give you the impression that you should try a cast iron barrel, just meant to make the point that the analogy does not fit. I assume that you were refering to a hardened steel barrel, rather than tempered. To temper is to soften. Seems I saw somewhere that Shiloh tries to harden their barrels to around 30 Rockwell. To get to 30 with a 41 series steel they probably go through a hardening sequence, without a tempering drawdown. I dunno.

The fouling shot seems to me to be less useful for covering up barrel imperfections than it is to normalize the coefficient of friction for the shots that follow.

Regardless, a straight, dimensionally correct barrel with zero corrosion or degredation of finish is still the desired outcome. I am not sure how far I would trust the bore butter to keep a good barrel that way. If there is a problem with bore butter, I wish it would catch on with the master class guys, maybe I could beat a few.

Josh

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 2:43 am

Everything got me to thinking about my barrels after using bore butter for the last 15 years. I cleaned the five single shot black powder guns I use bore butter in today and the barrels are perfect, no rust or anything, shine like the sun, The patches are tight with no drag and are as clean as if never used.
Frank Costa

ironramrod · Post by **ironramrod** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 9:35 am

Frank,

Sounds like your experience with bore butter is identical to mine. I have been using it for at least 10 years on 2 cap and ball revolvers, 2 muzzleloading shotguns, and 4 rifles with never a hint of rust or any other problems. Barrels are just like you said; shine like the sun. No build up in the barrels of anything detrimental to shooting precision.

Regards

PowderFlask2 · Post by **PowderFlask2** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 1:05 pm

What is the boards opinion of Ballistol?

I still consider myself a newbie (even though I have shot muzzleloaders for years)

This BPCR thing is different and I try to keep an open mind but I have had good results with it in the past and it is supposed to be "all natural"

KHR · Post by **KHR** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 12:24 am

Hi All,
here is just a small cautionary tale. I've had problems with borebutter and barrel rusting. Put away a fine hawken after thorough cleaning, Borebutter on the bore. About 6 months later when I tryed to shoot it I encountered some significant rust mid way down the bore. Also once I used bore butter to protect the outside of a single action and got a few pin prick rust spots.

I'd like for bore butter to really work for me 'cause seasoning a barrel seems to be a really good idea. Perhaps I am doing some thing wrong. Now I use Kroil or CLP for protecting a bore.

keith

Stan Koslow · Post by **Stan Koslow** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 12:47 am

KHR,
Can't tell you why your barrel went south but you might think of this; Bore butter is not a cleaner by itself (in my opinion). If any byproduct is left in that barrel inadvertantly before covering it with the butter, best chance you will have a problem. An improper cut or pores in the bbl ( even a good shooting bbl can have them) can hold trace element to a ton of junk. Once the o2 is there and the process begins, I don't think covering it will do much good. I have personly heard similar reports of bbls that are harder to clean that have had a continiuos diet of Pyrodex in their life time. I never have shot it so this is only hearsay. Have heard good reports to the other alternatives you stated. Settle on what you have confidence in. My two bits.

Stronghorn · Post by **Stronghorn** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 11:28 am

I clean my Sharps with Birchwood Casey BP solvent. Three wet patches followed by a dry one. Then a good gun oil (yes petroleum product) to coat the bore. Accuracy consistant and no rusting. Used bore butter patches in my muzzle-loader and found rust 8" down the bore after awhile. Back to spit patches for shootin' and soapy hot water for cleanin' and store with break free, no problem. Save your seasoning ideas for cast iron fry pans. BORE BUTTER is not a rust preventive and a horsesh@t patch lube. You'll find out eventually. 30 years of this and back to the basics..

VAshooter · Post by **VAshooter** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 2:37 pm

Trigger Dr said that the old timers didn't have access to our modern technology. True, but we don't have access to their technology either.

When I started shooting muzzle loaders back in the 1950's everyone I knew used sperm oil as a lubricant and rust preventitive in their barrels. It was the only oil I used until they outlawed hunting whales and the supply dried up.
Products like bore butter were developed to replace the sperm oil but in my opinion they don't work as well.

I contiued to use water based cleaners (soapy water) and switched to petrolium based oil for rust protection and haven't had any trouble. The guys that have trouble are the hunters who clean the oil out of their barrel, load and then shoot a shot during the day and carry the rifle for the rest of the day before they can clean it. The sperm oil would protect the barrel and prevent corrosion but the petro oil offers no protection once it is removed from the barrel prior to loading..

I'm going to try Balistoil and see what it does.

powderburner · Post by **powderburner** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:36 am

powderflask2 I have been using Ballistol for a couple years and have had good luck with it I mix it 6 or 8 to 1 with water to clean with and straight to wipe down and store with . it is also a great case lube for sizing ,and it is pretty good as a brass soaker as well. these are my observations of the stuff.

VAshooter · Post by **VAshooter** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:34 pm

Powderflask2

Thanks for the input. I don't know anyone who actually uses the stuff.