Model 1863 accuracy, etc.

gmartin · Post by **gmartin** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 9:54 pm

I own a mod 1863 carbine sn.#1271. Always trying to test and aid its inherent accuracy. I shoot an old shilo "buffalo slug" of 400 grns. with a paper ctg. (combustible) of 70 grns. 2fg Goex. Old mould. I am able to shoot 2 to 3 inch groups with original sights at 50 yds. (LETS BE HONEST, FEW CLOVERLEAFS) Hit a duck decoy sized sihouette duck my son made in welding class 6 to 7 times of 8 shots off hand at 75 yds. Might anybody have experience with another bullet? How about a tang sight? Want to keep gun as authentic as possible but a fitting sporting type marble sight interests me. Hope to save for and purchase a mod. 1874 for silhouette matches. (Been to one match last week Jan. , slanting snow but what a kick! G. Martin

Rich Siegel · Post by **Rich Siegel** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 7:47 pm

GMartin

I also shoot a Shiloh 63 military carbine. I use it in competition so I only shoot 50 grains of GOEX in a paper cartridge. I use a 475 grain Rapine ringtail bullet in a soft alloy. I can generally get 3" groups at 100 yards from a rest with the military sights and 3 1/2 pound trigger.

Amigo · Post by **Amigo** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:48 am

Hi

You mentioned that you shoot paper cartridges, are they flat based and
chamber length or the folded end type.I ask this because if you use a paper cartridge which is flat based and chamber length then you will have more consistent accuracy as you are using precisely the same amount of
powder charge each time compard to the other type which allows the brech block to shear off the end of the cartridge which allows the charge to
vary and your accuracy accordingly.Also I ve heard that the Brooks designed bullet for the Shiloh Sharps is extrmely accurate.One other thing
when I loaded up paper cartridges for my 63 military rifle I used a toilet paper filler between the charge and the bullet to keep the charge compressed and at the base of the cartridge and had good results with it.

Hope this helps

Jeff

gmartin · Post by **gmartin** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:33 pm

Thanks Amigo for your response. I hope this works, an earlier reply to a fellow took 4 tries due to computer unfamiliararity. My paper ctg. are folded indeed but i am able to mash the whole ctg. in the chamber with litltle powder loss. Your method sounds better however one still must deal with a net escape of some powder rearward into 63 chamber it seems. But, consistency reigns and your metod is that. May I ask what bullet you use, the Brooks mould nomenclature you mentioned you must not know or you would have told me more. I seat the bullet with a homemade wooden starter of 1/2 inch tapped the same # of times per shot. This is a fun gun to shoot as you know and yes your comments were helpfull. Thanks again, Gregg

gmartin · Post by **gmartin** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 7:16 pm

To Mr. Siegel, Oh man have I had trouble responding to you. You are the recipient of 5 attempts, golly. Thanks for the information you sent me! Yes, I'd thought about a reduced charge for greater accuracy, I think I'll play with that. There are so many variables with the paper ctg. Sharps, bullet starting, powder backing into the gas check mechanism, the bullet and the rate of twist, all to say nothing of the Lawrence pat. sight(s). I use as I told Amigo a wooden 1/2 inch starter tapped the same # of times per shot. The old bullet is a true wadcutter supplied by Shilo. It is accurate and did dispatch two black bear. It has seen (the mould) better days. Explain if you wish your "ringtail rapine" bullet of 475 gns. How soft is your soft alloy? Before I knew better I have used straight wheel weights, plumbers pipe my boy found that nearly did me in with its fumes, and of course pure lead, or so what I purchase says. Now I understand why some rounds seated easier than others, still, how much difference does it make when I consider all variables. Consistency in it all is of the greatest importance I believe. Therefore experience of all who write to help me is appreciated. Your 100 yard 3" groups are a benchmark I'll strive for. Thanks so much, Gregg

Rich Siegel · Post by **Rich Siegel** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 11:38 am

Gregg

The Rapine bullet is his standard model that has a final driving band of .549". The other two bands are smaller and fit into the rifling. The bullet has a .51" ringtail on the end which I glue the paper cartridge onto. I've tried 99% soft lead with good results but have recently gotten my best results with an unscientific alloy of half wheel weights and half soft lead. I really need to try an exact tin/lead mix to get a better read on how hard an alloy is best but I've been lazy and haven't done so. After the cartridge is loaded, I dip the bullet in a lube of 50% bee's wax, 40% Crisco and 10% veg. oil.

I also thought that I should size the bullet to about grove diameter .547" but just found out that the alloy bullet shot best unsized.

Rapine molds are aluminum alloy and cost around $80. The mold number I use is 557475. His company is in East Greenville, Pa with a phone of 215-679-5413.

Good luck and aim for a better group then 3", I'm just lazy and that shoots good enough for my purposes.

Rich

gmartin · Post by **gmartin** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 3:23 pm

Mr. Siegal, Thank you again for responding. One of the reciptionists believed the groove diameter as .540 for my 63.,hmm. That Rapine will be saved for I believe, I began to mold bullets prior to knowledge of the correct useage of the process and I think a new mould is in order. I've read of others but no one has expressed useage of them to me. I take it by your descripyion that the bullet is seated by the expanding gases, very interesting as Col Klink might say. I use Wonderlube but have the ingredients for yours. I shoot from a wheelchair except prone (I have plenty of stregth to go in and out of chair or anything) due to an acctdent as a BLM Smokejumper 18 plus years ago and the unusual valley desert snow hasn't let me shoot much recently but darn I hope to soon! Thanks again, Gregg