Michael,
That prtty much is it. However today was spent at the range working up a load for this new rifle. I was able to get a load that shot damn well, and sense time is short it will do just fine. I did discover more problems with this scope shooting than something as simply as adjusting the sights. I sent a 140 bullets down range today, it was a poly anna day here in the Owens Valley temps where 60 to 65 there was not a cloud in the sky and there was very little wind. Just a perfect day for shooting new loads on paper. But man o man what in the hell are we scope shooters going to do about the mirage. With the sun shinning like it was the mirage was a frieght train and you can see all of it in that 6 power scope, all of it. Those pigs looked like a herd that was on the move and heading south in a hurry. The rams where jumping at least a foot in the air, and I found adjusting the windage to be the least of my problems. I guess this is just another one of those little problems we all will have to work through but this could be much tougher than sight corrections.
Gunny
Scope Shooting Techinque For BPCR Silhouette
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Ray Newman
- Posts: 3817
- Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2002 1:22 pm
- Location: between No Where & No Place, WA
Gunny: you just said the Secret Word--"mirage".
It is another factor that Shooters will need to contend w/ & or overcome (or ignore).
You also just burst the bubble of the nay sayers who claim the ‘scope will kill BPCR or BPCR silhouette as the ‘scope is an unfair advantage. As you say, it takes a good deal of Trigger Time to be come proficient & the Mirage Factor adds to the need for Trigger Time.
I haven’t seen the new style mounts as my Parsons ‘scopes have the wind on the front, which as you say can be time consuming to adjust. You also must have your wits about you to adjust the mount in the corresponding correct direction….
I can’t speak about the efficiency of the mil-dots except to say that on the high power ‘scopes that I seen this set-up seems to be distracting--too much clutter on the target. But again, w/ Trigger Time, I’m sure that eye knows what to look for.
All in all, I do believe that these “shortcomings” can be mastered. I also think tat the ‘scope class will eventually increase participation in the Sport.
It is another factor that Shooters will need to contend w/ & or overcome (or ignore).
You also just burst the bubble of the nay sayers who claim the ‘scope will kill BPCR or BPCR silhouette as the ‘scope is an unfair advantage. As you say, it takes a good deal of Trigger Time to be come proficient & the Mirage Factor adds to the need for Trigger Time.
I haven’t seen the new style mounts as my Parsons ‘scopes have the wind on the front, which as you say can be time consuming to adjust. You also must have your wits about you to adjust the mount in the corresponding correct direction….
I can’t speak about the efficiency of the mil-dots except to say that on the high power ‘scopes that I seen this set-up seems to be distracting--too much clutter on the target. But again, w/ Trigger Time, I’m sure that eye knows what to look for.
All in all, I do believe that these “shortcomings” can be mastered. I also think tat the ‘scope class will eventually increase participation in the Sport.
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ironramrod
- Posts: 1364
- Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 1:12 pm
- Location: Dakota Territory
Gunny,
I don't know how fast you were shooting your shots with blow tubing and all, but how much of the mirage problem do you think might have been caused by barrel heating during your experiments? The scope, of course, would be in a perfect position to get a whole load of heat mirage from a hot barrel on a calm day. I certainly have run into the barrel heating/mirage problem myself on the calm days; the only thing that saves my bacon over the long haul is that we have very few dead calm days.
Your thoughts?
Regards
I don't know how fast you were shooting your shots with blow tubing and all, but how much of the mirage problem do you think might have been caused by barrel heating during your experiments? The scope, of course, would be in a perfect position to get a whole load of heat mirage from a hot barrel on a calm day. I certainly have run into the barrel heating/mirage problem myself on the calm days; the only thing that saves my bacon over the long haul is that we have very few dead calm days.
Your thoughts?
Regards
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JAGG
- Posts: 589
- Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:28 pm
I'm not shooting a scope in BP now ! But in shooting smokeless at long range i check and reset my scope to the ranges a head of time and write down the bullet drift etc. at those ranges and make corrections for the bullet drift only when shooting at that range distance ! From then on i do not touch the sight adjustments but hold off the target for wind etc.. To sit there and keep dialing this way and that way will mix you up in the end and just put ware on the equipment over time ! If you are 2 feet left aim 2 feet right etc.! JAGG 
JAGG
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Michael Rix
- Posts: 468
- Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:39 am
- Location: Western Colorado
Gunny, I have been thinking about this one a little bit, which can hurt but I risked it anyway.
With front windage only: Every idea I came up with involves holding off. When I have used the Holding Off Method (HOM) I used the top of the leg junction with the body for the vertical reference point and then slide along with the cross hairs for the windage correction. You have shot and spotted enough to know about what the MOA grid looks like on the P,T and R.
The system I have heard of goes something like this. The shooter fires and then places a special pin on the board where he thinks he broke the shot. The spotter marks the hit on the board with the regular pins and determines the correction for the next shot. Spotter then moves the special pin to the spot where he wants the shooter to brake the next shot. Repeat sequence to complete bank of animals.
I have never done this so I may not have it right. This was described to me back in the pits between relays at the 2002 nationals in Raton by a couple of guys from southern California. It sounds like a simple system that would keep me from loosing track of where I held off on shots past. The only real sticker with might be with big wind shift changes or switchy tail winds that keep you shooting on both sides of zero.
If you will, trouble-shoot it a little and we'll see where it goes.
Michael Rix
With front windage only: Every idea I came up with involves holding off. When I have used the Holding Off Method (HOM) I used the top of the leg junction with the body for the vertical reference point and then slide along with the cross hairs for the windage correction. You have shot and spotted enough to know about what the MOA grid looks like on the P,T and R.
The system I have heard of goes something like this. The shooter fires and then places a special pin on the board where he thinks he broke the shot. The spotter marks the hit on the board with the regular pins and determines the correction for the next shot. Spotter then moves the special pin to the spot where he wants the shooter to brake the next shot. Repeat sequence to complete bank of animals.
I have never done this so I may not have it right. This was described to me back in the pits between relays at the 2002 nationals in Raton by a couple of guys from southern California. It sounds like a simple system that would keep me from loosing track of where I held off on shots past. The only real sticker with might be with big wind shift changes or switchy tail winds that keep you shooting on both sides of zero.
If you will, trouble-shoot it a little and we'll see where it goes.
Michael Rix
"Vegetarian" Old Indian word meaning lousy hunter.
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Michael Rix
- Posts: 468
- Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:39 am
- Location: Western Colorado
The match this past week was canceled due to too much snow on the ground at Denver. So I have no more scope experience to draw on.
In other scope news I am starting to receive entries for the Colorado BPCR Scoped Rifle CHAMPIONSHIPS to be held May 22nd and 23rd. This is the first Scope Class State match ever held. Additionally I received the list of national records and it is wide open, almost. After this two day tournament is over, there will be some (many) national records set, again because this is one of the first times a registered 40shot and then 80shot two-day course will be fired. Again this IS the first time a STATE SCOPE Championship match will be fired. The NRA will be sending out a lot of National Records after the match to fill the unset categories.
In the 40 shot course only the OPEN class (Al Sledge-34) and SENIOR (Butch Ulsher-30) is filled. Of course as always any score to beat this will be the new record.
In the 80 shot "Regional” course only the OPEN class (Randy Nash-43) is filled (and our two-day State Championship is classified in this category).
That leaves Senior, woman and juniors unfilled.
All the LONG RUN records were set last summer at the nationals in Raton and they are all set at 15. Thirteen shooters are tied at 15 Pigs. Jerry Vanwey has 15 TURKEYS. And Al Sledge has the 15 RAMS.
There is no doubt that some unfilled nationals records will be set and maybe a few standing records will be broken.
This is your chance to be a part of shooting history. Contact me for entry forms.
Michael Rix rmrix@hotmail.com
In other scope news I am starting to receive entries for the Colorado BPCR Scoped Rifle CHAMPIONSHIPS to be held May 22nd and 23rd. This is the first Scope Class State match ever held. Additionally I received the list of national records and it is wide open, almost. After this two day tournament is over, there will be some (many) national records set, again because this is one of the first times a registered 40shot and then 80shot two-day course will be fired. Again this IS the first time a STATE SCOPE Championship match will be fired. The NRA will be sending out a lot of National Records after the match to fill the unset categories.
In the 40 shot course only the OPEN class (Al Sledge-34) and SENIOR (Butch Ulsher-30) is filled. Of course as always any score to beat this will be the new record.
In the 80 shot "Regional” course only the OPEN class (Randy Nash-43) is filled (and our two-day State Championship is classified in this category).
That leaves Senior, woman and juniors unfilled.
All the LONG RUN records were set last summer at the nationals in Raton and they are all set at 15. Thirteen shooters are tied at 15 Pigs. Jerry Vanwey has 15 TURKEYS. And Al Sledge has the 15 RAMS.
There is no doubt that some unfilled nationals records will be set and maybe a few standing records will be broken.
This is your chance to be a part of shooting history. Contact me for entry forms.
Michael Rix rmrix@hotmail.com
"Vegetarian" Old Indian word meaning lousy hunter.
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Gunny
- Posts: 388
- Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2002 5:41 pm
- Location: California
Michael,
your match sounds very interesting. i am going to be on the road on those dates headed to Kenny Wasserburgers Creedmoor shoot, it would be real easy to stop there and shoot this match. If you would send me the details, range location, facilitys etc I will talk to my shooting partner and see if we can fit this in. Might even may be able to talk Jerry Vanwey the reighing National Champ to come and shoot.
Gunny
gunnyrs@pacbell.net
your match sounds very interesting. i am going to be on the road on those dates headed to Kenny Wasserburgers Creedmoor shoot, it would be real easy to stop there and shoot this match. If you would send me the details, range location, facilitys etc I will talk to my shooting partner and see if we can fit this in. Might even may be able to talk Jerry Vanwey the reighing National Champ to come and shoot.
Gunny
gunnyrs@pacbell.net
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in one pretty and well preserved piece, but to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, worn out and defiantly shouting "WOW, what a ride!"
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RMulhern
- Posts: 7682
- Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2002 9:41 pm
- Location: North Louisiana
Scope technique
Gunny
You were USMC! Didn't they teach you folks how to "favor"? It was very common with the USAMTU to use "favors" when shooting NMC team match events...especially during the 200 and 300 rapid fire stages. I think the Marine Corps Team used the same techniques! It was nothing more than a slight "hold off" at the 5 or 7 o/clock position on the bullseye. When the coach shouted "slight right favor"...we held at the 5 o/clock position. If it was "hard right favor" we moved on out to where the middle of the post would have been in line vertically with the 3 on the clock face. Worked the other side same way for an increasing wind from the 9 o/clock side.
Frankly....once you get to shooting the scope, I don't think you're going to find it to be much of a problem in using "memory recall" to know where/how to hold! You know the dimensions of the targets for certain and you'll be able to interpolate pretty well I think.
I too also think that this will help entice other shooters into the game; both "silly wet" and longrange events!
HOLD HARD & STAY CENTER!
You were USMC! Didn't they teach you folks how to "favor"? It was very common with the USAMTU to use "favors" when shooting NMC team match events...especially during the 200 and 300 rapid fire stages. I think the Marine Corps Team used the same techniques! It was nothing more than a slight "hold off" at the 5 or 7 o/clock position on the bullseye. When the coach shouted "slight right favor"...we held at the 5 o/clock position. If it was "hard right favor" we moved on out to where the middle of the post would have been in line vertically with the 3 on the clock face. Worked the other side same way for an increasing wind from the 9 o/clock side.
Frankly....once you get to shooting the scope, I don't think you're going to find it to be much of a problem in using "memory recall" to know where/how to hold! You know the dimensions of the targets for certain and you'll be able to interpolate pretty well I think.
I too also think that this will help entice other shooters into the game; both "silly wet" and longrange events!
HOLD HARD & STAY CENTER!