OK, I know I am beating a dead horse as this topic has probably been covered already. I have read where folks are compression the powder by as much as .450. My question is this, do most folks compress the powder charge after using a drop tube? I have loaded several 45-70 and if I use a 36 in drop tube and try to compress the powder over .2 it really seams to be compressing the powder. I have to think I am crushing the powder which in turn will create a wide spread in pressure and in turn cause my gun to shoot like a shotgun with cylinder choke.
What are some of your techniques in loading the powder and compression?
Powder compression
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Ken Hartlein
- Posts: 1662
- Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2002 12:04 am
- Location: Floresville, TX
I use a 24" drop tube and just recently changed my compression to .220 under a lyman 535 grain postel. I shot my best score so far two weeks ago. Not a high score by most but at least it was my best score. I'm using 66.5 grains of goex cartridge and .060 cardboard wad, which I'm changing to a veggie wad of .060 from John Walters. Starline fireformed brass, fed 210 primer, 7 puffs on the blow tube between shots.
Shiloh Rules!!
Republic of Texas Shiloh Hunter
Republic of Texas Shiloh Hunter
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Rickd
- Posts: 174
- Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 7:18 pm
- Location: DeLand, Florida
DM. Yes, people who are compressing GOEX are normally doing so AFTER using a 24" (or longer) drop tube. The recommendations I've gotten are pretty consistent in .350 compressing (three hundred fifty thousandths), or that neighborhood, for optimum accuracy with GOEX. Run a test with your rifle. 15 rounds each at .20, .25, .30 .35 and see what happens to your groups. Good shootin.
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IronSight
- Posts: 226
- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 7:34 pm
- Location: Indiana
dm,
Since i weigh each load as opposed to loading by volume, i throw a 'coarse' load with a powder measure with attached drop tube, then trickle in the remainder of the load and then compress. You don't say, but just in case, use a compression die to compress and NOT the bullet, it'll keep your OAL consistant from round to round. Also be very careful when you get close to .4" of compression, all that pressure could start bulging your cases.
Since i weigh each load as opposed to loading by volume, i throw a 'coarse' load with a powder measure with attached drop tube, then trickle in the remainder of the load and then compress. You don't say, but just in case, use a compression die to compress and NOT the bullet, it'll keep your OAL consistant from round to round. Also be very careful when you get close to .4" of compression, all that pressure could start bulging your cases.
IF YOU CAN'T MAKE IT WORK..AT LEAST MAKE IT LOOK GOOD!!
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Bad Ass Wallace
- Posts: 312
- Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 1:57 am
- Location: Australia
Firstly when loading BP we must not have air space in the case as in smokeless powder because it is possible to ring a chamber by not having a 100% bulk load, i.e. a full case. We tend to load black powder at levels above 100% and compress the powder back to the 100% level to seat the projectile i.e 105%, 110% etc.
I have, for the past 6 months, been conducting with various black powders experiments regarding the optimum amount of compression in relation to the velocity and extreme spread of those readings. I used the following calibres 40/65, 45/70 & 50/70 and fired and chronographed over 400 rounds in testing.
The results were most interesting. The optimum compression to obtain the lowest spread appears to be in all instances between 0.025-0.040" (i.e. 1-1.5mm). Indeed I found that over compression gave lower velocities and more variation in velocities than under compression.
Take for example the 40/65 and Swiss No2 powder. Starting with 55gn and 409gn projectile with no compression (other than settling from the drop tube) a velocity of 1080fps with 44fps spread was recorded. 63 gn compressed 4.5mm gave 1178fps with 74fps spread. 58gn compressed 0.035" gave 1257fps; the extreme spread was just 6fps. This trend was recorded in all three rifles and also in two borrowed 45/70's.
Has anyone else in BP land done similar testing to confirm my results?
I have, for the past 6 months, been conducting with various black powders experiments regarding the optimum amount of compression in relation to the velocity and extreme spread of those readings. I used the following calibres 40/65, 45/70 & 50/70 and fired and chronographed over 400 rounds in testing.
The results were most interesting. The optimum compression to obtain the lowest spread appears to be in all instances between 0.025-0.040" (i.e. 1-1.5mm). Indeed I found that over compression gave lower velocities and more variation in velocities than under compression.
Take for example the 40/65 and Swiss No2 powder. Starting with 55gn and 409gn projectile with no compression (other than settling from the drop tube) a velocity of 1080fps with 44fps spread was recorded. 63 gn compressed 4.5mm gave 1178fps with 74fps spread. 58gn compressed 0.035" gave 1257fps; the extreme spread was just 6fps. This trend was recorded in all three rifles and also in two borrowed 45/70's.
Has anyone else in BP land done similar testing to confirm my results?
Hold still Varmint, while I plugs yer!
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IronSight
- Posts: 226
- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 7:34 pm
- Location: Indiana
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Bad Ass Wallace
- Posts: 312
- Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 1:57 am
- Location: Australia
I still got 152 rifles, 6 shotguns & 9 pistols.
Essentially, you can own bolt action, pump, single shot & lever guns in any calibre except 50BMG, provided you have a genuine reason & genuine need for each one. There seems to be an unwritten law that you can have only two rifles of the same calibre. That's why my 30.06's are registered as 2x30.06, 2x7.62M1, 2x7.63x63, 2x30.03 & a 308 Magnum.
In pistols, you can have up to 38cal to shoot any match but require special endorsement for over 38cal and you can only shoot Western Action or Shilhouettes with them. Handgun hunting is really no-no.
I am fast running out of genuine reasons and needs to buy more, but I think I could tell a few whoppers to get a Shiloh
Essentially, you can own bolt action, pump, single shot & lever guns in any calibre except 50BMG, provided you have a genuine reason & genuine need for each one. There seems to be an unwritten law that you can have only two rifles of the same calibre. That's why my 30.06's are registered as 2x30.06, 2x7.62M1, 2x7.63x63, 2x30.03 & a 308 Magnum.
In pistols, you can have up to 38cal to shoot any match but require special endorsement for over 38cal and you can only shoot Western Action or Shilhouettes with them. Handgun hunting is really no-no.
I am fast running out of genuine reasons and needs to buy more, but I think I could tell a few whoppers to get a Shiloh
Hold still Varmint, while I plugs yer!
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Buckskinner
- Posts: 144
- Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 4:47 am
- Location: Boise Idaho
Sown under
BAW
Thank you for your post, glad to have you among the living! Some of the folks sure seem to compress the hell out of the black but, I haven't shot that much compression so I sure can't say.
There are several books here in the U.S. published by Paul Matthews, Some of the titles are.
Black Powder, Pig Lead and Silhouettes
Cast Bullets for the Black Powder Cartridge Rifle
The Paper Jacket
He has ben shooting Black powder most of his life, the books are very good for those of us just starting to shoot single shot rifles of the Black Powder nature.
He talks about compression, doesn't use more than .100". I have compressed my loads for the most part .125" a more than his suggestion to fit my bullets to the load and chamber. When I get a load that shoots really good I will mess with compression to see what happens. I really enjoy the hunt for accuracy in my rifles.
Thanks for your coments on the firearms laws downunder. We all hear and read these really bad reports, I for one am glad to hear you haven't been stripped completely of your shooting. Keep us informed as your laws change. We all are watching what happens to our shooting brothers in other countries!
Gary
Thank you for your post, glad to have you among the living! Some of the folks sure seem to compress the hell out of the black but, I haven't shot that much compression so I sure can't say.
There are several books here in the U.S. published by Paul Matthews, Some of the titles are.
Black Powder, Pig Lead and Silhouettes
Cast Bullets for the Black Powder Cartridge Rifle
The Paper Jacket
He has ben shooting Black powder most of his life, the books are very good for those of us just starting to shoot single shot rifles of the Black Powder nature.
He talks about compression, doesn't use more than .100". I have compressed my loads for the most part .125" a more than his suggestion to fit my bullets to the load and chamber. When I get a load that shoots really good I will mess with compression to see what happens. I really enjoy the hunt for accuracy in my rifles.
Thanks for your coments on the firearms laws downunder. We all hear and read these really bad reports, I for one am glad to hear you haven't been stripped completely of your shooting. Keep us informed as your laws change. We all are watching what happens to our shooting brothers in other countries!
Gary
Here's to the American Front line men and women where every they are!!!
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IronSight
- Posts: 226
- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 7:34 pm
- Location: Indiana
Bad Ass Wallace,
Thanks also for your comments on your restrictive gun laws. The last i heard about them on one of the patriot radio programs here is that your country was even banning the import of sling shots. Find that hard to believe though!
Gary, I tend to agree with you, i seldom compress beyond .25" Lately my current loads are around .1" and thats mainly to allow a consistant OAL from round to round. After doing some compression experiments a while back, i didn't notice any improvement with extreme compression loads - coulda been the powder i was using or even my skill level at the time. Or maybe i need to redo those compression experiments again this time with with different alloy bullets.
Based on my past experience with flintlocks, powder compression does affect ignition and probably burn rates also, at least in a flinter. One of the methods i used to get my flintlock to fire reliably was to NOT ram the ball down so hard as to tightly compress the powder charge. The more 'porus' charge for a lack of a better term, now allowed the relatively weak(compared to a large rifle primer) fire from the pan flash to penetrate deeply into the main powder charge for a more sure and faster ignition. My geuss is that a solid mass of powder will tend to rebuff the relatively weak fire from the touch hole. It worked for the flinter. A BPC with its much more powerful and direct primer fire wouldn't have ignition problems but the burn rate might be affected. Could be a harder bullet might like a low compression-faster burn rate load for quicker bump up obturation while a softer bullet might want a slower burn rate-more compression, not needing the extra initial bump up force. The bullets i used in those experiments were relatively hard!
Just a geuss. And as always i'm prepared to eat some crow! Now where's that ketchup?
Thanks also for your comments on your restrictive gun laws. The last i heard about them on one of the patriot radio programs here is that your country was even banning the import of sling shots. Find that hard to believe though!
Gary, I tend to agree with you, i seldom compress beyond .25" Lately my current loads are around .1" and thats mainly to allow a consistant OAL from round to round. After doing some compression experiments a while back, i didn't notice any improvement with extreme compression loads - coulda been the powder i was using or even my skill level at the time. Or maybe i need to redo those compression experiments again this time with with different alloy bullets.
Based on my past experience with flintlocks, powder compression does affect ignition and probably burn rates also, at least in a flinter. One of the methods i used to get my flintlock to fire reliably was to NOT ram the ball down so hard as to tightly compress the powder charge. The more 'porus' charge for a lack of a better term, now allowed the relatively weak(compared to a large rifle primer) fire from the pan flash to penetrate deeply into the main powder charge for a more sure and faster ignition. My geuss is that a solid mass of powder will tend to rebuff the relatively weak fire from the touch hole. It worked for the flinter. A BPC with its much more powerful and direct primer fire wouldn't have ignition problems but the burn rate might be affected. Could be a harder bullet might like a low compression-faster burn rate load for quicker bump up obturation while a softer bullet might want a slower burn rate-more compression, not needing the extra initial bump up force. The bullets i used in those experiments were relatively hard!
Just a geuss. And as always i'm prepared to eat some crow! Now where's that ketchup?
IF YOU CAN'T MAKE IT WORK..AT LEAST MAKE IT LOOK GOOD!!