Looking for an Original Springfield Trapdoor Rifle

Texas Shooter · Post by **Texas Shooter** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:47 pm

Minnesota:

I could kick myself for not buying a real nice one 20 years ago. I've always thought they were a nice looking and important American firearm.

I'm glad to hear that there are some nice ones around.

If anyone has some preferenced dealers who handle them, please pass it on.

www.trapdoors.com has a couple that appear in excellent condition.

Texas Shooter

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:53 pm

Al: you're right about the *.

I once saw a carbine w/ a higher than-should-have-been-price soley because of the *.

The dealer was giving the very interested potential buyer some BS about it "being really rare" & he "hated to sell it", but it was "a consignment gun & the owner wanted the money", "first one he seen since he's been in the business some 35 yrs." etc....

Sometimes going to gun shows & listening to verbal exchanges is worth more than the price of admission.

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:41 pm

Texas Shooter et al: one thing I & a Fellow Shooter/Collector learned from watching web auctions & selling sites & buying & returning firearms from them, is that a bit skepticism never hurts.

For example, a great number of dealers utilize such nebulous terms such as "nice". But who defines nice? "Shiny bore"--define shiny. What does “really good shape for its age & history” really mean...

Does the old saw “Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder” sound familiar?

I’ve seen very few dealers who actually use the NRA rating system--see below link.

Always look for & get @ least a 3 day inspection privilege--in writing.

Always pay by USPO money & send a cover letter via registered/certified/ priority mail stating the agreement & what‘s was bought. That way if something goes awry, you have recourse through the US Postal Inspectors .Always state the terms of the agreement in the letter & if that is not their understanding, have them return the money ASAP.

Get tracking numbers for all packages & if a return, delivery confirmation..

Make copies of the original ad & all other correspondence.

Don’t give your credit card number-- you don’t know how secure the dealer’s computer actually is or how well he secures his recording keeping.

Get digital pictures & beware of those that are not of the best quality.

If you return something, you’ll have to pay the freight both ways, which depending upon the size of the firearm can get expensive--over size packaging or FFL user fees. Some delivery services may refuse to accept it & you’ll need to chase down another service, or if it’s an antique send it via the USPO.

A telephone call is really inexpensive & good insurance against buying a beater or @ best buying something that is not as advertised. Have a list of questions to ask the seller.

If you decided to buy it get the serial number (if it has one) & include that in the letter to the dealer stating the terms of the purchase.

If buying @ a show have the dealer take the firearm outside--weather permitting--so you can look @ it better. Bright sunlight will expose many flaws.

Make up a gun show shoulder bag, w/ tie clippers, extra plastic ties, flash light, magnifying lens, take down cleaning rod, patches, bore mirror, note book w/ pertinent info, etc.

When I was looking for another Trapdoor, I brought my reference book w/ me & a few dealers raised their eyebrows. Right now, I’m looking for a VG plus S &W Victory model. I have a folder containing information, inc. inspector’s marks, etc., for the gun shows.

If a dealer gets pissed @ all this, remember it’s not his money you're spending.

http://www.gunsnstuff.net/html/nragrades.html.

taw1126 · Post by **taw1126** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:00 pm

Ray- you shop for guns like I do...and sometimes it seems like gun dealers hate to deal with an educated buyer more than car dealers.

Since there's considerable discussion about books y'all might get a kick out of this:

After leaving the hardware store tonight I stopped at a bookstore, and my three-year-old son asked why. I told him we needed to go in so Daddy could look for a new gun book.
"I don't need a gun book" he said, "because I already know which way to shoot!"

That, my friends, is logic that's hard to argue with. Especially when you're laughing...

dlemaster · Post by **dlemaster** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:54 am

To All
There is an excellent site on trapdoors at "trapdoorcollector.com"
This site is run by Al Fresca the trapdoor guru and ther are many knowledgable collectors who post there.
The * serial numbered trapdoors are really common and all the * means is that that rifle or carbine was arsenal rebuilt by Springfield probably for the Spanish-American War. All serious collectors fell that the * does not justify any kind of a premium.
Al also sells rifles and carbine on his site, he is fair as well as his prices.
He always is more critical in the discriptions of rifles he sells than most sellers. Most buyers are pleased to find the rifle or carbine was even better than described.
I'm still seeing rifles at the gun shows here in Ohio in very good to excellent condition and excellent bores from $700 to $1000, carbines are running from $1200 on up, and you must be carefull there are a lot of cut down rifles being put on as true carbines.
Poyer and Roush's book is an excellent buy at about $20.00 to carry with you when shopping.
If your looking for a good shooter find an original 1884 Model or one that was arsenal upgraded with the 1884 Buffington rear sight. This the closest thing to a Target grade sight that the U.S ever put on a standard issue rifle.
Also get a copy of Spencer and Pat Wolfs book "Loading Original Cartridges for the Trapdoor Springfield" it contains a lot of excellent information about the Springfields and their sights and how to use them as well as ammunition as loaded by the arsenals.
Regards to all, Dave

Bill Falk · Post by **Bill Falk** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:12 pm

Howdy, One of the replies mentioned CAS. You might try www.sassnet.com , go to the forum then to classifieds and write up what you are looking to buy. You will discover that the sass type shooters are an honest bunch. I belong and have bought/sold over the SASS wire with confidence. However, buyer beware. Regards

Texas Shooter · Post by **Texas Shooter** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:38 pm

Bill:

Thanks for the sass link. I will follow up with them.

Texas Shooter

Texas Shooter · Post by **Texas Shooter** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:49 pm

dlemaster:

Thanks for the post. Your right his site is very interesting.

It breaks my heart how many rifles got stolen. Unbelievable!!!

The few he has left really help give some pricing help.

I'm looking forward to him gaining some more inventory. With all the serial numbers listed of the guns stolen, it seems it would be very difficult for the robber to sell them.

But, what do I know? It's just a damn shame.

Thanks,

Texas Shooter

dlemaster · Post by **dlemaster** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 4:50 am

Texas Shooter
When Al's guns were stolen he had left his van parked outside the Hotel (locked) and was gone just long enough to register when the kids rolled up
smashed the glass and drove off with the van. They didn't even know what was in the van. These hoodelums have a game out there to steal one of each model of car, once they gotten one of each model that a maker makes they move on to another manufacturer and start again.
Lotsa' fun huh!
I hope they catch them,strip them and hang them by their kahounies, then spank their naked asses with a split bamboo pole. Now that would be fun!

Any way my first BPCR was a 1868 Model trapdoor in .50-70 that my wife bought for me, that is still one of my favorite rifles for whitetails. I've had it for over 30 years and its a pleasure to shoot. My wife then bought me an 1884 Model with the Buffington rear sight, that rifle is a real shooter with those 500gr bullets.

If you get one I'm sure you will enjoy it. They have so much history.
Regards, Dave

Bumper · Post by **Bumper** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:02 am

Texas Shooter, I bought my TD over at the www.sassnet.com classifieds site. It was made in 1877, came with a bayonet, no original cleaning rod, decent wood & markings, and is a shooter. I'm not interested in "wall hangers" and like to shoot the guns that I've acquired. Rbump

KHR · Post by **KHR** » Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:12 am

Texas Shooter,
I've got a small TD collection, a first year issue 1873 model four digit sn, an unfired 1884 model 99%, and a 1888 ramrod bayonet 96%. all have excellent bores. For a gun to shoot the 1884 with the buffington sight will be a great choice, the ramrod bayonet is supposed to be a little less accurate. So I think you could not go wrong with an 1884 model in fine to excellent condition. I've seen prices range $1100 to $1400 for such guns. The lyman 458125 shoots well but will thump ya, i like the 420 gn lyman for longer strings of shots.
Another great place to look for trapdoors is Antiqueguns.com http://www.antiqueguns.com/auction/display.cgi?all/205 If the auction seller is listed as "antiqueguns.com" then the seller is Rob Robles, and you can trust him. I have bought sharps and winchesters from him. you can call and even sometimes negotiate the price. Some of the auctions feature some really fantastic guns like iron frame henrys etc.
Good luck, trapdoors are cool, and you can stil get some really good deals. the Al Fresca book is excellent to make sure your gun is all correct for the exact year produced.

keith

Texas Shooter · Post by **Texas Shooter** » Sun Aug 08, 2004 1:24 am

KHR:

I appreciate the information. I'll check out the link and see what I can find. I usually would like to have two if possible and the wallet can stand it. One to shoot and a terrific example to keep.

How long ago were the prices from $1100 - $1400?

Thanks,

Texas Shooter