Choosing and designing my next Shiloh.

[HangfireME]

I've been reading about rifle preferences in other strings and, rather than highjack someone else's, decided to start my own.

I've been interested to read what looks like a number of you singing the praises of the balance of the Shiloh Business Rifle. I own one in .45-70 that I found on the rack some 12 or so years ago. I am having a new one built precisely because I don't care for the balance. I was able to take a day from an April fishing trip to drive over to Shiloh and heft a number of examples and found that, for me, the Sporter #1 with a 30" Standard Octagonal barrel fits me like a glove. Where it seems an effort to hold my business rifle offhand for any length of time, the 30" #1 feels like I could hold it there forever - OK, I'm exagerating a bit but you get my drift.

So, here is what I've planned so far and I welcome any comments or suggestions (explain reasons for suggestions please):

Shiloh Sporter #1
30" Standard Octagonal barrel
Polished barrel
Polished screws
Traditional Steel buttplate
Pewter foerend tip
Custom bedding of the Forearm
Extra Fancy wood (hand selected)
AA Finish
Beech front sight
Semi buckhorn Rear sight
Mid-range Tang Vernier sight
French Gray finish
Engraving

My biggest question, yet unanswered, is caliber. I am comfortable loading .45-70 but have thought about moving to a .45-90. I plan to use this for hunting (buffalo in 12/05) and perhaps bear again at some point; maybe even deer though this seems like a lot of gun for the whitetails we get here in central Maine. Also plan to use it for target/informal competition out to 300 yards.

In settling on a caliber, my concerns are the relative ease of developing an accurate load and it must be adequate to take a buffalo. I have read suggestions here in the Forum that some of the larger 45s (100, 110, etc)might be a bit touchy when it comes to developing loads that are consistent (issues of bullet seating depth, etc). There really isn't the opportunity hereabouts to do the kind of shooting that demands you learn enough about reloading to build 100 yd one hole loads. Not sure I'm saying this right but suffice it to say that serious competition is probably not in my future. With that in mind, is the .45-90 any more difficult to load well than the .45-70? Is it a good choice for an all around rifle?

[Ken Hartlein]

The 45-70 has killed thousands of buffalo. It's easy to learn to load for, and is a good all around calibre. That said, I already have a Shiloh 45-70 and have another Shiloh ordered, just for hunting and it will probably be a 40-70ss. If I hunt buffalo I will take the 45-70.

[Ray Newman]

As for caliber, I have always been partial to the .45-2.4" (AKA .45-90).

Considering the cost of the accessories/upgrades for the rifle you are contemeplating, I suggest thast you add the 'accent line" to the cheek piece. I have one on my #1 & it really looks very nice.

As for a hunting/woods rifle, you rproposed rifle seems like an awfully expensive firearm to take afield where it could loose some of its beauty from a scrape, fall, etc.

I haven't found that my .45-2.4" is any more easier or more difficult to load than my .45-2.1" (AKA .45-70) or .45- 2 7/8" (AKA .45-110). W/ all BPCR calibers, there is a learning curve.

Will you load BP or White Powder/Nitro? You didn't state. In any case, below is a link to an on-line BPCR reloading manual authored by a successful BPCR shooter. It may be of some use.

http://www.ssbpcrc.co.uk/Resources/Intr ... oading.pdf

[HangfireME]

Thanks for the responses. I will, of course be loading black powder. I've never been able to bring myself to contemplate anything else.

I agree, it will be an expensive rifle to take afield. I do not plan to make it my everyday hunting rifle, in fact, I normally hunt deer while standing in the bow of a canoe and so use a shotgun (rocking boay, running game - don't combine with a single projectile very well). I would use this to hunt in what I refer to as more controlled circumstances; as from a stand. Here in Maine, the really nasty weather has usually not arrived by the end of the deer season so, once the stream freezes, I take to a tree stand if I've had no luck. I would also use it for bear again assuming the local and not so local antis don't get their referendum against hunting bear over bait passed this Fall. I will take it buff hunting in December of '05 in KS. While I will take precautions (my daughter is making and beading a buckskin sleeve for it that I can leave in place for the ride on horseback and the stalk) I am prepared for it to pick up some additional character if it happens. Primarily, it will be used on paper and steel.

[Grizz]

HangfireME
You seem to have everything planned to the point of just needing confirmation on your caliber suggestion. Being the choice between the 45-70 or the 45-90.
The 45-70 is a great caliber as is the 45-90. The 45-90 is a little more expensive to reload because of the brass. Other than the 45-90 can be loaded down to 45-70 velocity or up to the 45-90 range.
I have a 45-90 and have been tossing around the idea of another rifle.
My problem is that the 45-90 seems to be about all the rifle that I need. It can be loaded to equal the 40-65 or up to the 50-90. The only exception is the 50-90 possibly with a 650 grain bullet or larger. I am not the person that needs that much recoil to contend with.
So for me the choice is rather simple. I would opt for another 45-90. It seems to fit in a lot of areas.
My rifle is a LRE with 34" barrel and extra fancy wood. I consider this a rifle that is a general use item. I did not buy it for a collector item. I do not wish for someone else to get the benefit of it after I am dead. My intent is to use it for what ever I wish and then pass it on to my son and let him use it for the rest of his life as well.
Buy it and use it, shoot it to death and then part this world knowing that you had the greatest rifle to shoot that was ever made.

[HangfireME]

Grizz

My thoughts exactly. While I don't plan to beat it up, I view this as a usable piece of art, usable being the key word.

[Grizz]

HangfireME
I started out with a lot of 2000 lbs of lead for bullets. I am into this about 250 lbs. I have every intention of going thru this and starting on a second batch. Hopefully I will live long enough to meet these ambitions.
I use this for everything. Prarie Dogs, Coyotes, Badgers, Deer, Elk, Targets, rocks and everything in between.
I have found that the advice on this site about Paul Jones molds are the way to go for cast bullets.
Hope that you are able to do the same.

[Ken Hartlein]

Grizz, you hit it right on the head. I don't care if it's a $4 rifle or a $4000 rifle, if I own it it's for shooting. I agree with you, the 45-90 is an awsome cartridge and can be used for anything you can hunt or shoot at.

[mrrangerman]

Grizz

I've been doin some rough math, 250# is about 8000 rounds (give or take) if you shoot 10000 rounds a year you can be workin on the next batch in about 5.5 years given that you've allready used 250#.
That will keep you busy.

So you live in Loveland CO.? I used to live on hwy 34 just off of the Big Thompson river, there used to be a place called Fort Medeana a stones throw from our house. I don't know if its there anymore. The Devils Backbone was just behind the house. Wish I still lived out there! Some of the best country God put on this earth.

Good shootin
Dan

[Grizz]

Hi Ken
I had looked over the fine selection of cartridges that Shilo offers and talked it over with Lucinda and Kirk. I needed a caliber that would fit my requirements. They are wonderful and give great information.
The 40-90 SS was one of my choices originaly. But after studying and learning more about the caliber and digging back into my memories of the 1950's reading of gun magazines on the caliber. I had to move on to something else.
The 45-70 is a great caliber in its own right. But I wanted something just a little out of the ordinary. The 45-90 just seemed to fit the bill. It is just a little more of a wonderful thing. It sure has lived up to that expectation.
I know that there are other calibers that will suit the requirements and needs of other people much better. But this works for me.
Good to hear from you.

[Grizz]

Hi Dan
I hope to shoot it up as soon as possible and start on the second batch. Sure is a lot of fun. I have a problem determining if the Shilo is the excuse to get out and hunt and run around the plains and mountains. Or if I just want to run around the mountains and take the Shilo along. Guess it is a combination of both.
Yes the Fort is still here as well as the Devils Backbone. Some day you may wish to return here. Still plenty of room and the scenery has not changed. We are growing a lot and I am not certain if that is good or bad. Just depends on how you look at it I guess.
I live about midway between Loveland and Fort Collins. Get to listen to the Coyotes at night and the trains that run from Denver to Wyoming sound great. As you know in this area that you can hear trains for miles. Something to do with the altitude and land contours.
Spend a lot of time over in the Pawnee Grass Lands for the flat land hunting and shooting. Then go over to Buford off the Flattops at Trappers Lake for Elk. The deer I just hunt in North Park to the Wyoming border.
Have a friend that has a cabin in the canyon by Estes Park on the Big Thompson and fish for trout there during the fall and winter. Go over to Steamboat during the summer and fish there as well. Sometimes to Granby.
Colorado is a state that has so many National Forests and BLM property to hunt and fish that it is unreal.
Let Me know when you want to come home. I will help you in any way possible.