Good Evening
I just recently placed my order for my 'first' Shiloh rifle. I know I will havew to wait for up to a year to take delivery, but that is just fine. The model I picked put is the Long Range Express, 45-70. I will be adding a few options when production gets closer. I did find it difficult to choose a model and I am hopeful this one is right for me.
Does any one have suggestions as to how to pick the right model? Shiloh has been very helpful and the model I picked is popular, but I just want to make sure.....
It is difficult looking at pictures on the Internet and making a choice.
Any feedback is greatly appreciated.
Laguna Hills Mike
Shiloh Rifle Models
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Rabert
- Posts: 102
- Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:10 pm
- Location: Germany
Hello Mike (and hello Kirk, hoping you peak into this posting),
the webpages of Shiloh Sharps are excellently done and deliver a lot of information around the Sharps and have a very good ordering system. However, there is really some lack of information about the individual Sharps rifles they offer. Just one picture per weapon and nearly no information about the particularities of a given weapon. What, besides the design, distinguishes a Quigley from a Business Sharps or a Creedmoor? Why no pictures of the different options of case design or finishes? Why not some lengthy essay about the differences between a Model 1863 and 1974? A more then comprehensive article about the history of the Sharps rifle in general and the history of Shiloh Sharps would be nice.
Webspace and bandwith did become cheap in the past years and to add this information would be a two weeks job or something like this, but would make this website not only much more informative and complete, but in fact outstanding in the business and a real reference for Sharps rifles to the world.
Shiloh Sharps is a customized production with quite some production backlocks. It is in close communication with each individual customer, other then a big car manufacturer. This could be reflect by the contents of Shiloh Sharps' web presence.
There could be some daily actualisation of the production backlock situation. Even a log of the production process of an individual rifle could be offered to the community or - password protected - to the client. Just think about one or some picture(s) of each weapon which leaves the production whith all its specs mentioned as a public reference and production history! That not only would be internationally outstanding for a commercial website, it would bind the community much closer to the company, since a lot of prospects and customers would watch daily which weapons have left the production, how do they look like, what are there specs. Some even might get ideas and order "a rifle like this one", because it did look that nice on the pictures. With the Trophy Room section ot the webpages is already some of this philosophy realised, just don't stop there...
There are numerous possibilities to use the web not only for basic product information and an online ordering system, but to strengthen the bands between manufacturer and client base. But what is most urgently needed IMHO is to add much more detailed information about the offered rifle models.
Kirk, there is work to be done!
Best regards
Rabert
the webpages of Shiloh Sharps are excellently done and deliver a lot of information around the Sharps and have a very good ordering system. However, there is really some lack of information about the individual Sharps rifles they offer. Just one picture per weapon and nearly no information about the particularities of a given weapon. What, besides the design, distinguishes a Quigley from a Business Sharps or a Creedmoor? Why no pictures of the different options of case design or finishes? Why not some lengthy essay about the differences between a Model 1863 and 1974? A more then comprehensive article about the history of the Sharps rifle in general and the history of Shiloh Sharps would be nice.
Webspace and bandwith did become cheap in the past years and to add this information would be a two weeks job or something like this, but would make this website not only much more informative and complete, but in fact outstanding in the business and a real reference for Sharps rifles to the world.
Shiloh Sharps is a customized production with quite some production backlocks. It is in close communication with each individual customer, other then a big car manufacturer. This could be reflect by the contents of Shiloh Sharps' web presence.
There could be some daily actualisation of the production backlock situation. Even a log of the production process of an individual rifle could be offered to the community or - password protected - to the client. Just think about one or some picture(s) of each weapon which leaves the production whith all its specs mentioned as a public reference and production history! That not only would be internationally outstanding for a commercial website, it would bind the community much closer to the company, since a lot of prospects and customers would watch daily which weapons have left the production, how do they look like, what are there specs. Some even might get ideas and order "a rifle like this one", because it did look that nice on the pictures. With the Trophy Room section ot the webpages is already some of this philosophy realised, just don't stop there...
There are numerous possibilities to use the web not only for basic product information and an online ordering system, but to strengthen the bands between manufacturer and client base. But what is most urgently needed IMHO is to add much more detailed information about the offered rifle models.
Kirk, there is work to be done!
Best regards
Rabert
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deerhuntsheatmeup
- Posts: 2253
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 6:36 pm
- Location: Mississippi
help
Guys, The LRE is a very good target model and it is the same gun as the number 1 Sporter without the rear barrel sights. The options picked would make the gun your personal "1 of a kind".
If you will spend some time in Sellers book, you can learn a who;e lot about the history of the Sharps rifle and make an informed decision about which rifle suites your taste. In reading this book, pay close attention to detail and you will learn the difference between Bridgeport models and Hartford models as well as the options that were available. The Seller's book is available from Shiloh I believe.
Good Luck on your choices and you cannot go wrong with a Shiloh Sharps. I am the owner of 2.
Later, David Barfield
If you will spend some time in Sellers book, you can learn a who;e lot about the history of the Sharps rifle and make an informed decision about which rifle suites your taste. In reading this book, pay close attention to detail and you will learn the difference between Bridgeport models and Hartford models as well as the options that were available. The Seller's book is available from Shiloh I believe.
Good Luck on your choices and you cannot go wrong with a Shiloh Sharps. I am the owner of 2.
Later, David Barfield
General Rustie
Oiling Director
FES Society
It's hard to have a bright light experience, when you are living in the light.
Oiling Director
FES Society
It's hard to have a bright light experience, when you are living in the light.
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powderburner
- Posts: 2990
- Joined: Sat May 24, 2003 12:23 am
- Location: elko nv.
I would like to second davids statement , shilohs are custom rifles and that makes it real hard to picture everything they do .the picture album would be so big it would take years to look at it . read up on the rifle in sellers book and others that are aroung and look at pictures, in museums and displays and make your decision that way or go to matches and look at the rifles there and get input from other owners as to what they like or want on their rifles ( this forum is a start) and make your decisions from that . On the home page there is a lot of discussion on the types of shooting done with these rifles and the major options are all listed .It is tough to decide, but doing the research and deciding how YOU want YOUR rifle is what makes the experiance of purchaceing one of these rifles unique and fun. The personal attention you get when you talk to the girls in the front is in my opinion, a whole lot more comforting than looking at pictures when you have thousands of dollars on the table....Dean
Dean Becker
only one gun and they are 74 s
3rd asst. flunky,high desert chapter F.E.S.
MYWEIGH scale merchant
reclining member of O-G-A-N-T
only one gun and they are 74 s
3rd asst. flunky,high desert chapter F.E.S.
MYWEIGH scale merchant
reclining member of O-G-A-N-T
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Texas Shooter
- Posts: 1092
- Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:51 pm
- Location: North Texas
Rabert:
Those are some good questions. I asked a similar question a number of months ago. The information I received had was something like this:
We are very busy making rifles and we are doing good to have our web page to this point.
I'm certainly not complaining, it's seems that many of the custom rifle manufacturers have a some what basic web site. You are probably like the rest of us:
We would enjoy a web site with 1000's of pages of information about these great rifles.
Even then we would go though it and want more.
Try Reading "Sellers" book on the Sharps rifles. As soon as you finish, you will start looking to see if there is a volume 2 you can read next.
With true lovers of these rifles there is NEVER enough reading information.
Maybe someday, we will have an endless supply of information. But then, when would we shoot and load?
Texas Shooter
Those are some good questions. I asked a similar question a number of months ago. The information I received had was something like this:
We are very busy making rifles and we are doing good to have our web page to this point.
I'm certainly not complaining, it's seems that many of the custom rifle manufacturers have a some what basic web site. You are probably like the rest of us:
We would enjoy a web site with 1000's of pages of information about these great rifles.
Even then we would go though it and want more.
Try Reading "Sellers" book on the Sharps rifles. As soon as you finish, you will start looking to see if there is a volume 2 you can read next.
With true lovers of these rifles there is NEVER enough reading information.
Maybe someday, we will have an endless supply of information. But then, when would we shoot and load?
Texas Shooter
"Aim Small, Miss Small!"
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Rabert
- Posts: 102
- Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:10 pm
- Location: Germany
Hello folks,
well, I'm not talking about fandom, I'm talking about business.
Shiloh Sharps is a small company with an international client base and acting in international markets. For this type of business the internet is not just a nice-to-have add-on to conventional marketing and customer relation management, it can be a made a major factor of success.
Obviously, Shiloh does know that, since they produced a really well designed webpage with a sophisticated online ordering system and already have introduced some community driven parts to their web presence like this forum or the Trophy Room.
Every additional line of text, every additional picture,every additional feature improves the ability of Shilohs webpages to attract prospects looking for Sharps weapons, even for poeple looking for information about Sharps weapons in general. I for instance would not know anything about the Shiloh business if they wouldn't have already put some effort in making the webpage present on the internet. If this webpage would be of the same quality like that of C. Sharps for instance, I wouldn't have bothered to waste a lot of time here. On the other hand, I'm quite often looking on the Pedersoli webpage. Why? Because they offer more information about the individual rifles they sell, something I hardly find on Shiloh's pages (besides this forum of course).
It is my understanding that offering as much information about the individual products as possible is not a neglectable factor of a web presence, it is its core sense. Investing even more effort into internet based top class interactive customer information is not wasted money or time, its the future of international business. This discussion remembers me of talks with CEOs some 10 years ago when I advised them to reserve their domain names s d to start investing in an internet webpage. Most of the them didn't see the necessity that time, all of them are in the internet today. Some of them, of course, not with their original companies name. And others, which started early, have a learning curve behind them which positions quality and functionality of their web presence often far beyond their competitors.
Shiloh definitly does not need to transform Sellers' book into its web pages. But for a company of its size with a market all around the globe, the internet is vital. Every hour and every dollar spent on it will pay back twice. However, if someone does not want to or cannot expand, they of course do not need to invest...
No offense, but as a management consultant I have to deal with this topics from time to time and I really do not understand the hesitations of companies to realize their web pages as a major part of their marketing and advertising arsenal. It has not happened yet, that more functionality and information on a web page did hurt its owner, however the contrary is abvious to all. Just look at C. Sharps, that's how not to do it. But that this page is inferiour to Shiloh's is no reason to stop improving the Shiloh Sharps internet presentation. Last but not least, you can hardly think of any other business growth instrument, which can be improved and maintained for less money than an internet presentation, especially in a small special interest market segment like Sharps fabrication and sales.
The aim should be that everybody who - for which reason ever - is searching for information about Sharps will find Shiloh and will return to its pages, because they are informative, nicely designed, reflecting the companies philosophy of personal and close relationship to its customers, and because there are some WOW-effects which makes the decision easier to buy a pricy Shiloh Sharps, since you then will get those fancy and asthonishing internet based after sales services. People want to be entertained! The internet can do that!
Why do I need to leave Shiloh's webpages, when I want more detailed information about Sharps weapons, especially when I just want more detailed information about a Sharps rifle offered by Shiloh? It's just like you send a catalog to a prospect and tell them that they should look into the catalogues of the competion for more info or buy pricy books.
As I stated above: Each additional line, each additional picture, each additional feature in Shilohs webpages increases the possibility that a prospect turns into a customer.
Well, enough lecturing for today...
Best regards
Rabert
well, I'm not talking about fandom, I'm talking about business.
Shiloh Sharps is a small company with an international client base and acting in international markets. For this type of business the internet is not just a nice-to-have add-on to conventional marketing and customer relation management, it can be a made a major factor of success.
Obviously, Shiloh does know that, since they produced a really well designed webpage with a sophisticated online ordering system and already have introduced some community driven parts to their web presence like this forum or the Trophy Room.
Every additional line of text, every additional picture,every additional feature improves the ability of Shilohs webpages to attract prospects looking for Sharps weapons, even for poeple looking for information about Sharps weapons in general. I for instance would not know anything about the Shiloh business if they wouldn't have already put some effort in making the webpage present on the internet. If this webpage would be of the same quality like that of C. Sharps for instance, I wouldn't have bothered to waste a lot of time here. On the other hand, I'm quite often looking on the Pedersoli webpage. Why? Because they offer more information about the individual rifles they sell, something I hardly find on Shiloh's pages (besides this forum of course).
It is my understanding that offering as much information about the individual products as possible is not a neglectable factor of a web presence, it is its core sense. Investing even more effort into internet based top class interactive customer information is not wasted money or time, its the future of international business. This discussion remembers me of talks with CEOs some 10 years ago when I advised them to reserve their domain names s d to start investing in an internet webpage. Most of the them didn't see the necessity that time, all of them are in the internet today. Some of them, of course, not with their original companies name. And others, which started early, have a learning curve behind them which positions quality and functionality of their web presence often far beyond their competitors.
Shiloh definitly does not need to transform Sellers' book into its web pages. But for a company of its size with a market all around the globe, the internet is vital. Every hour and every dollar spent on it will pay back twice. However, if someone does not want to or cannot expand, they of course do not need to invest...
No offense, but as a management consultant I have to deal with this topics from time to time and I really do not understand the hesitations of companies to realize their web pages as a major part of their marketing and advertising arsenal. It has not happened yet, that more functionality and information on a web page did hurt its owner, however the contrary is abvious to all. Just look at C. Sharps, that's how not to do it. But that this page is inferiour to Shiloh's is no reason to stop improving the Shiloh Sharps internet presentation. Last but not least, you can hardly think of any other business growth instrument, which can be improved and maintained for less money than an internet presentation, especially in a small special interest market segment like Sharps fabrication and sales.
The aim should be that everybody who - for which reason ever - is searching for information about Sharps will find Shiloh and will return to its pages, because they are informative, nicely designed, reflecting the companies philosophy of personal and close relationship to its customers, and because there are some WOW-effects which makes the decision easier to buy a pricy Shiloh Sharps, since you then will get those fancy and asthonishing internet based after sales services. People want to be entertained! The internet can do that!
Why do I need to leave Shiloh's webpages, when I want more detailed information about Sharps weapons, especially when I just want more detailed information about a Sharps rifle offered by Shiloh? It's just like you send a catalog to a prospect and tell them that they should look into the catalogues of the competion for more info or buy pricy books.
As I stated above: Each additional line, each additional picture, each additional feature in Shilohs webpages increases the possibility that a prospect turns into a customer.
Well, enough lecturing for today
...Best regards
Rabert
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BuckeyeShooter
- Posts: 500
- Joined: Tue May 06, 2003 5:31 pm
- Location: South Central Wyoming
Rabert. I'm not sure you fully understand what Shiloh Rifle is. I've been there twice. It's a family operated business with a handfull of employees that occupies two buildings in a little town in beautiful Montana. When you walk in the door it's like walking into a relatives house. They treat everyone like they are the most important customer they have that day. The phone never stops ringing and they always answer it with the same cheerful voice everytime. They never try to rush you out the door even when they probably have a lot more important things to do than just standing around BS'ing with one of us over obsessed multiple Shiloh owners. This is there credo. Customer service is their #1 priority and that's on the personal level. Their website is pretty darn good considering the last thing they want to probably do when the day is over is try to maintain it. These people are top notch and the best in the business. If you really know about the history of Sharps rifles and how they were put together in the old days their web site pretty much covers all aspects of this fine rifle.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" -Benjamin Franklin-
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Rabert
- Posts: 102
- Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:10 pm
- Location: Germany
Thanks for the info Buckeye.
in fact, I haven't been at Shiloh's site yet. Not that easy to do that from Germany
...
However: I'm sure you know how Bill Gates or Steve Jobs started there businesses? There are a lot of success stories especially in the US where the first production was situated in the garage and the customer department was done in the evenings from a spare room in the house. (Most of this stories would never have taken place in overregulated Germany, btw, because with a production of whatever in a garage you would have violated several laws...).
It is absolutely possible and understandable that the owners of Shiloh Sharps may decide that they do not want to grow. That they are content with what they have achieved so far. In Germany we call it the Porsche way of business: All the time produce at least one product less then the client base demands. You can do that when you're products quality is well above standard and have such an outstanding reputation that desire overcomes lack of availability. And I think this is applicable to Shiloh Sharps.
So in case they do not wish to grow, they are doing an excellent job. Then all what I wrote before is obsolete, of course. But if they want to grow...
Best regards
Rabert
in fact, I haven't been at Shiloh's site yet. Not that easy to do that from Germany
...However: I'm sure you know how Bill Gates or Steve Jobs started there businesses? There are a lot of success stories especially in the US where the first production was situated in the garage and the customer department was done in the evenings from a spare room in the house. (Most of this stories would never have taken place in overregulated Germany, btw, because with a production of whatever in a garage you would have violated several laws...).
It is absolutely possible and understandable that the owners of Shiloh Sharps may decide that they do not want to grow. That they are content with what they have achieved so far. In Germany we call it the Porsche way of business: All the time produce at least one product less then the client base demands. You can do that when you're products quality is well above standard and have such an outstanding reputation that desire overcomes lack of availability. And I think this is applicable to Shiloh Sharps.
So in case they do not wish to grow, they are doing an excellent job. Then all what I wrote before is obsolete, of course. But if they want to grow...
Best regards
Rabert
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wardwarf
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:09 am
- Location: Atlanta Ga
- Contact:
i think this is the case....as a sole proprietor of a company (and i don't know how shiloh is legally organized, but i'm guessing)...one has a very high level of control of that company, no board of directors to answer to, no comittees to argue with, and i think the very first page of thier website states the company's desire to remain in such a state...
"Welcome to the NEW 2004 Shiloh Sharps Rifle website. As you look around the pages of this site, you will discover that, as with the original Sharps, our rifles are not intended for the mass market. They are for the shooter, hunter, competitor and collector who wants something special. Therefore, we will NEVER SACRIFICE quality for higher production figures. To do so would compromise the "soul" of this product, and disappoint those wishing today for the quality that was the norm in the 19th Century American firearms. We feel that Shiloh Sharps Rifles reflect the extra time and effort that go into their manufacture."
The porsche business model is exactly what they are going for...though i don't expect they have analyzed demand curves to determine how to produce one less product than the market will buy, but i think they are at are at a place where they can closely monitor the production of thier rifles to the standard that they desire, with a small number of employees that they know and trust... this is why instead of building another factory somewhere, they have a one year backlog.......
"Welcome to the NEW 2004 Shiloh Sharps Rifle website. As you look around the pages of this site, you will discover that, as with the original Sharps, our rifles are not intended for the mass market. They are for the shooter, hunter, competitor and collector who wants something special. Therefore, we will NEVER SACRIFICE quality for higher production figures. To do so would compromise the "soul" of this product, and disappoint those wishing today for the quality that was the norm in the 19th Century American firearms. We feel that Shiloh Sharps Rifles reflect the extra time and effort that go into their manufacture."
The porsche business model is exactly what they are going for...though i don't expect they have analyzed demand curves to determine how to produce one less product than the market will buy, but i think they are at are at a place where they can closely monitor the production of thier rifles to the standard that they desire, with a small number of employees that they know and trust... this is why instead of building another factory somewhere, they have a one year backlog.......
This space also for rent
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Hidehunter
- Posts: 214
- Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2002 1:26 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
Rabert
Your points are all valid but, at the risk of repeating what's been said before, you need to better understand the nature of Shiloh's facilities, products and the general nature of thier business. It is a small, family owned and operated company located in a small Montana town. I cannot speak for the owners but I would tend to believe that they are satisfied with the volume of business as it is now.
Shiloh could always increase their production capacity. They could move to a larger city thus improving logistics. Make an "almost as good" product and sell it at a much reduced price. Maybe offer a much wider line of historical firearms. What would we have? An American version of Pedersoli. There are only so many customers interested in owning a replica of a 130 year old single shot rifle. It wouldn't take very long to saturate the market. Then what?
As for Shiloh's internet presence, 2 years ago they had none. No website at all. Yet at that time there was a FOUR YEAR backlog. The 'net may be a great way to drum up interest in, and sell, the latest "made in China" techie gizmo. But most prospective Shiloh buyers already know about the product and company. I'd be willing to bet most of Shiloh's rifles are ordered the old-fashioned way, over the phone or via the mail.
Your points are all valid but, at the risk of repeating what's been said before, you need to better understand the nature of Shiloh's facilities, products and the general nature of thier business. It is a small, family owned and operated company located in a small Montana town. I cannot speak for the owners but I would tend to believe that they are satisfied with the volume of business as it is now.
Shiloh could always increase their production capacity. They could move to a larger city thus improving logistics. Make an "almost as good" product and sell it at a much reduced price. Maybe offer a much wider line of historical firearms. What would we have? An American version of Pedersoli. There are only so many customers interested in owning a replica of a 130 year old single shot rifle. It wouldn't take very long to saturate the market. Then what?
As for Shiloh's internet presence, 2 years ago they had none. No website at all. Yet at that time there was a FOUR YEAR backlog. The 'net may be a great way to drum up interest in, and sell, the latest "made in China" techie gizmo. But most prospective Shiloh buyers already know about the product and company. I'd be willing to bet most of Shiloh's rifles are ordered the old-fashioned way, over the phone or via the mail.
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Rabert
- Posts: 102
- Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:10 pm
- Location: Germany
Hello Hidehunter
But again, I think I understand what you all mean. If it's Shiloh's way to stick to a limited production for a limited community, they are in fact doing a great job, and that's not meant satirical.
Best regards
Rabert
Great! I fully respect this. That's legit and definitly a more relaxed way to do business, and under this circumstances the range and quality of the products and services Shiloh offers is astonishing.It is a small, family owned and operated company located in a small Montana town. I cannot speak for the owners but I would tend to believe that they are satisfied with the volume of business as it is now.
That wouldn't work. Shiloh has its market niche because of its quality and price. To give that up just for increased output would be fatal.Make an "almost as good" product and sell it at a much reduced price.
When you focus only on your national market, you may be right, although I stongly believe that achieving a saturation especially of your national market would take some serious effort. Internationally millions of weapons are sold each and every year to private owners. Outside the States Shiloh could harvest much more, I'm convinced.It wouldn't take very long to saturate the market.
Just the contrary. The net is especially great for small businesses acting worldwide, and even more for businesses selling top quality craftsmanship internationally. There is no cheaper and more efficient way to establish a close two-way relationship between a company and its customers.The 'net may be a great way to drum up interest in, and sell, the latest "made in China" techie gizmo.
But again, I think I understand what you all mean. If it's Shiloh's way to stick to a limited production for a limited community, they are in fact doing a great job, and that's not meant satirical.
Best regards
Rabert