Rolling Block Question

[mrrangerman]

Hello to all,

I have a 1879 Argentine RB in 43 spanish, I think it is a no1 action. I have tried about everything I can think of to get it to shoot groups of less than 8" at 100 yds. I know it has a free bore. I bought basic brass from B.A. got an OAL length which is 3.250 trimmed the brass to 2.555 but when I load the brass with BP, the least I can put in and be at the base of the bullet is 90 gn. Problem is I have had two cases blow apart at the shoulder and had 1" of brass lodge in the chamber. Not fun to remove let me tell you.

My question is, I have a few more things to try but if they fail, Is the action on this gun strong enough to have a new barrel, maybe a Badger barrel and have it chambered in 45/70 - 45/90 or maybe 45/100? I've read of having a new barrel put on a no5 action. But what about the no1? I do not want to shoot white powder I want to stay with Black.

I'm not concerned with keeping the gun original unless I can get a replacment barrel in 43 spanish WITHOUT the free bore as I have the dies, brass and bullet mould for that cal. But I also have bullet moulds for the 45 cal. so changing to the 45 cal. would not be a problem. And I have seen a RB with a octigon barrel and it was sharp. Any advice?

Thank You
Good Shootin
Dan

[TYRVR]

I have built numerous rolling blocks and have chambered them in most of the popular loadings up to and including .45-120 with no problem....providing the action is in good condition to start with, Badger, Green Mountain, Douglas and many others offer a barrel for about any chambering you desire in the black powder spectrum, you should have no worrys about re-barrelling.
Have you slugged your current barrel? Argentine contract rifle bore Dia. was....varied to say the least, I have some that mic-d at .446! as to the brass....is it old? or new, you might be overworking it by sizing full length after firing, lots of variables as to why a rifle won't perform.....most will be found in the bore or the bullet, if you have a decent bore with a decent crown, and a bullet of proper Dia. it should do well,

Good Luck and have fun!
Ol' Tye,

[mrrangerman]

TYRVR

Thanks for the reply,

I did slug the barrel and it was .440, the bullet mould that I have cast at .440. as for the brass, Its new I full length sized and then I fire formed them. The first one that came apart was on the second load in that case, the second one to come apart was on the third load. I wonder if all the stress this brass has been put through just to get it formed to the 43 has taken it to it's limit, and I just pushed it over the edge? I'm going to give Bell ammo a call and see if they make or can make 43 basic. I don't think the pressure is to grate in the loads I have tried. Both bore and crown are in good shape, not new condition but still good.

How much Black do you think would be to much? with the lenth of the case I would have no problem putting 103 to 105 gns. I did try one load with 102 gn. 1F and it was on the ninth shot I had my first case come apart. So I tried some loads with 90 gn. and .60 wad to get the powder to the base of the bullet, on my second shot the case came apart.

The action on this gun is in very good shape, so a rebarrel does'nt sound out of the question if nothing else works.

Good Shootin
Dan

[Frank]

mrrangerman,

I have a Remington #1 Rolling Block in 45/70 that has a 26 1/2" Numrich octagon barrel. The barrel is marked "45/70 Buffalo" the barrel is 1 1/8" across the flats, 1 in 20 twist and slugs at .456. The rifle with a Lee Shaver Soule tang sight and a Lyman 17A globe sight has a weight of 10 pounds 11 ounces. It is a good looking rifle. I have not played with it as much as my Shiloh 74 or Winchester High Wall but so far it will shoot 2" to 3" at 100 yards. I am sure if I worked with it it will get better.

Frank Costa

[TYRVR]

I believe I would lower the charge and try for accuracy instead of power, regardless of speed, a missed shot kills naught. My best load in the .43 Spanish was 77 grains of CTG with an old Lyman mold that threw a round nose bullet of 477 grains weight and three lube grooves, used SPG to lube, and while it was only equipped with original sights, I got 2-3 inch groupings at 100M.

[Clarence]

mrrangerman,

Your loads are very similar to what I use in my .43, and I get 2-3" groups and very reasonable case life.

A question on your Buffalo brass: is it the thick rim version? My memory says it has the rims thickened to ~0.088-0.089" for a close fit with the ~0.090" rim recess that is typical with these rifles.

Your problem sounds a lot like my first attempt, when I was using Buffalo brass with the standard rim thickness of the .348 cases they were using, which I think was either 0.060" or 0.065". The 0.020-0.025" excess headspace caused case failures similar to the ones you mentioned beginning on the first firing, as well as case stretch of ~0.030" every firming for the cases that didn't fail.

Clarence

[mrrangerman]

TYRVR

Hi, I'm not going for power, I'm going for the most accurate load the gun will shoot. Without using a filler 90gn is the least I can put in the case and not have an air gap from powder to bullet. I tried standard length brass and was using from 75 - 83gn but the bullet had to jump so far before it hit the lans, I was getting no accuracy and a very unstable bullet. I tried a very light load of white powder to fire form the trimmed basic brass, with the OAL close to what the gun needs and had encouraging accuracy.

Clarence

I'll check the size of the rim and see what the thickness is, I did check the brass length after shooting and only had about .001 stretch on a few but no stretch on the rest.

Thank you all
Good shootin
Dan

[JAGG]

Anneal your brass before doing any more firing ! I have had to use 45/70 brass to fire in my screwed up 43sp. by slipping some brass tubing over the base ! My chamber will allow a.450 bullet to enter the fired case neck ! Talk about a screwed up chamber and pitted bore ! It now shoots after fire lapping the hell out of it a 3 inch group at 100m ! Close the breach block and let down the hammer on the block and then grab the block and pull back on it to see if any play is there ,then do the same with an empty case in the chamber ! There shouldn't be any or only slight play with the hammer down ! JAGG