Glock43 whoas

[Lumpy Grits]

Survived to GFs. Both times I had my 'duty' 1911 with me.
FWIW: I also carry an H&K USP compac in .45acp or a S&W 9mm Shield.
The Shield is great for summer pocket carry.
Always carry at least one reload and a flashlight with you.
G.

[desert deuce]

I remember a training session put on by the FBI I attended quite a while ago.

That was before the semi-auto rage and most law enforcement agencies issued some variation of a six shot double action revolver, usually in .357 magnum. Of course qualification was done with .38 wadcutters. Then one day it was decided by the Border Patrol that the .357 magnum ammunition from the previous quarterly qualification would be expended in the succeeding quarterly qualification. That was when it was noticed that the groups on target were not quite as tight with full house magnum loads as they were with wadcutters.

Getting back to the FBI lecture. At that time only 17% of the first shots fired by law enforcement officers nationwide hit the intended target. Second shot dropped to about 7% if I remember correctly and by shot three the probability of a hit was practically zero.

Average distance was just over ten feet. (That is law enforcement shootings, I think the civilian shootings are more than that.)

Now, my question to the instructor was, "why if the hit ratio for all shots fired is less than ten percent is anyone worried about over penetration?" I got no answer.

Now there was one other important point. Estimated duration of gunfight average was about seven seconds and most gun fights took place in low light or darkness environments.

And of course the caveat of your job is not to win the gun fight, your job is to survive the gun fight was interjected toward the end.

[mdeland]

I would think my answer would have been over penetration of walls, windows and car bodies hitting bystanders as most gun fight shots apparently are misses and that bullet is going somewhere. The hollow points loose there steam much faster than does a cast lead or ball slug when hitting glass, (especially tempered or laminated).
A case in point was just last winter I changed a double pane temper glass patio thermo that had been completely penetrated by a pistol slug and it lodged in the sheet rock across the room missing the lady of the house by about a foot or so while she was standing by the kitchen table.
Most any center fire slug , will go through a standard house or business wall like hot cheese and even a stud in the wall will not always stop them .

[Woody]

You can debate penetration and over penetration all you want, but the purpose of that projectile is to stop "Johnny Bad Breath" from doing bad things, and to do it now not later. I want the biggest baddest weapon and projectile that I can handle accurately and then I will train, train, and train again. I train and shoot more now that I am retired than I ever did as a soldier and a LEO.

Woody

[Woody]

You can debate penetration and over penetration all you want, but the purpose of that projectile is to stop "Johnny Bad Breath" from doing bad things, and to do it now not later. I want the biggest baddest weapon and projectile that I can handle accurately and then I will train, train, and train again. I train and shoot more now that I am retired than I ever did as a soldier and a LEO.

Woody

[Lumpy Grits]

Don't forget, that every round fired can bring a civil suit. Even if it's a 'clean-shoot', and no criminal charges are filed.
BTDT
G.

[Skip]

I have become a huge fan of the Sig P365. It is the same size as the M&P Shield, Glock 43 and the Ruger LC9 but comes with a 10 and an optional 12 round magazine. With one up the pipe that's 13 chances to go home alive. It actually shoots way better than one would expect.
I have a Ruger LC9 but it hasn't left the gun cabinet since I bought the Sig.

[mdeland]

I saw one of those tested last week on the internet and was amazed at the size with a partial double stack mag. Ingenious magazine ,it's double stack about half way up then goes narrow down to single stack if I understood the guy correctly. I doubt it's still as narrow at the bottom as the G-43 though which is very close to 1 inch.
I have the 2 shot mag extensions for my G-43 which will give you 9 with one up the spout. The ones I have are contoured to the grip shape and feel really nice.
Their called the EMP magazine extension and are made by Strike Industries: Now I have a grip under my little finger that I didn't with the standard factory 6 round mag.

[Top Dog]

MDELAND,
I read with great interest how you worked to "improve" your new Glock 43.

As a retired LEO with forty years on the job,my recommendation would be to leave your self defense firearm as stock as possible. Same goes for ammunition,use no handloads for SD rounds.

If,heaven forbid,you should get into an incident and have to use the piece,prosecutors might make an issue of you making alterations to the gun to make it more "deadly".

Just my own $.02 on the subject but with experience.

I have a very high opinion on the Glock products and I am sure that yours will give you many years of flawless service.

Top Dog

[mdeland]

Thanks for the input TD I appreciate a professionals thoughts on the issue. I did notice when I took the CC course that most of the instructors had made some alterations to their guns regardless of manufacturer. There was input that agreed with your advice and others who felt being able to control the shots better with trigger and connector upgrades was actually a contribution to safety and effectiveness.
I am always worried about miss directed shots that hit bystanders which translates usually to a miss on the target. I saw a story about a shoot some time ago in NY were a spray of bullets from LEO's at a knife wielder resulted in bystander hits which would not have occurred had they hit their target.
The plastic trigger on the Glock with the ridged face is about the only thing I detest on the guns although it is very reliable right from the factory. Personally I had to get rid of the creep and 6 lb trigger pull on the 43 to enhance accuracy proficiency. I found I had to make my own trigger to get what I felt most comfortable with in the small guns shoot-ability . When completed it will have exactly the same safety parameters it left the factory with and far better accuracy potential which in my thinking translates directly to safety enhancement .

[Lumpy Grits]

X2 on what TD sayz. I am also a former LEO.
LEO or civilian-Every shot fired has the potential for a criminal and/or civil action.
The 'game' the lawyers play is it was a negligent discharge all together.
With a modified gun-They will push that you were look'n for trouble.
BTDT..........
Gary

[mdeland]

I suspect where one lives makes a huge difference in the attitude about how a defensive arm is set up. Here in AK we have open or concealed carry with or without a permit for any citizen with a clean record. Even here , gang crime is on the increase with shootings happening quite regularly but folks are a lot more receptive of gun ownership and respectful knowing very many private citizens are packing heat and the chance to get your fanny shot off for a crime is quite high.
We had a local attorney talk to us about liability and responsibility of concealed or open carry. The instructors taught never to pull a gun to ward off and attack because it will be seen as brandishing but the attorney seemed to indicate the contrary as very often a knife wielder or run of the mill thug will very often have a change or heart when staring down a quickly drawn but not yet fired arm.
The question arose about old folks having to protect themselves and the attorney laughingly said " a ninety year old man or woman can shoot practically any one and get off Scott free, if being assaulted or even threatened.

[Lumpy Grits]

if the knife guy is with in 20' of you.
You may never get that gun out fast enough.
G.

[mdeland]

Very true and a good point! For most folks the very idea of having to shoot another human is loathsome but some times there is no alternative if one wants to continue breathing and one must be mentally prepared for such an eventuality.

[Lumpy Grits]

The shooter's response, is because of the other persons actions.
I was going home.....The other person made the bad choice
G.