SBN's

[bobw]

I understand from my own reading ,that the chamberings in 74's and conversions went from straight walled cases to Sharps bottlenecked cases and then swung back to the straight walled again. Part of the reason for this was the old SBN cases were really soft and harder to keep working in the field (buffalo hunting) than the straight walled cases. That was then,this is now. Brass quality has never been better. I am curious about how many shooters out there are using: 40-70 SBN, 40-90 SBN, 44-77, and the 44-90 SBN's with BP and what kind of results they are getting? bobw

[Troll]

Fouling problems associated with the BN's same reason now as then.

[Mark Dunn]

I've had good luck with a .44-90 SBN. It'll shoot to about 5.5" at 300 yds (8 rounds). Current paper patch loads are getting about 2" at 100 yds (5 consecutive shots without blow tube. The same rounds will shoot 4.5" at 200 yds (5 shots, not blow tube - 3 of 5 were within 1.5"). I've been using Swiss 1.5, Tom Ballard Paper Patch Bullet, 1/8" lube cookie. While the above results may not cut it on the target range they'll do fine for hunting. I suspect if I were a better shot my .44-90 SBN would probably shot 1 moa. It's generally been my observation that the nay-sayers of bottlenecks probably have never shot one. I would suggest that if you want one, go for it. You'll have a great time with it!

[N2]

bobw - I have to agree with Mark, fouling with the BN's is greatly exaggerated. My 44-77 BN has shot it's way through several silhouette matches with only two dry patches between each animal without ever exhibiting excessive fouling, including in front of the case mouth. If anything, mine shoots better fouled than clean and it's demonstrated this behavior with both Swiss and Goex powders.

Most recently I've been working with a 40-70 BN and while this beast has yet to shoot match quality groups or post match quality ballistic data it has not shown a propensity to foul out. Again, I've run two dry patches through it about every 12-15 shots up to about 50-60 shots before throughly cleaning the rifle. Even at that point no unusual cleaning steps have been found necessary.

Were I to choose between the two calibers the 44-77 BN would be an easy choice especially when you consider this is the second 40-70 BN barrel on this rifle and both have been only "hunting" accurate. My experience with the 44-77 BN is limited to this one rifle, but the difference in performance between it and the 40-70 BN has been substantial. - Nick

[bobw]

ppb's & sbn's seems about as natural as cookies and milk. I really appreciate the posts, ordinary is not my path in life. My 1st Shiloh is a 50-140 LRE and my 2nd is a 40-70 2.1" sbn Saddle gun , extremes you might say. Only those who take the paths least traveled by, learn the most. I'll step off my soap box and say that both guns were great deals and I don't regret either choice, they have given me lots of fun. When I got the 40-70 the deal included a NEI ppb mold and a Tom Ballard cut adj mold on Lyman blocks (ppb) of course and a couple of Hoch nose pours with gas checks. I haven't done any BP loading with it yet, but heaven forbid it sure whistles those Hoch 412 gr tight with XMP 5744 with no leadin and great accuracy. Tell me if yours is a 2.25 or 2.1? how much black , of what granulation and any other secrets on this you care to share. Those Hoch's sure cast nice. I was thinking that maybe I'd try some of these with black and see what happens.
I' ve always wondered about how those 44-90 shot, they are very traditional and saw alot of action in the buffalo hunt years , always thought i'd sure like to experience one for a while,so many choices so little time and money eh? bobw

[BRLMKR]

BOBW,
I think as long as the bullet and wad are no lower than the base of the neck you shouldn't have any trouble. The fouling in my 44/77 is no worse than my straight case cartridge guns. I shoot Swiss exclusively in the 44. I had a 40/70 BN that I never really tried to get to shoot. I was going on an elk hunt and a friend had a 45/70 Shiloh barrel that I stuck on and never looked back. Have fun! Terry

[N2]

bobw - It's a 2¼". This 74 Shiloh/CSA was manufactured in 1987 and originally had the PP throat that was hell on GG bullet accuracy. It had a fondness for a 370 grain PP bullet over 50.0 grains of IMR4320. That was a 1900+ fps load and it did indeed let you know when you pulled the trigger. John King relined the old barrel and chambered it without the PP throat. To date I have not found a BP load I would consider to be competitive in silhouette beyond chickens. Once we get through Christmas and hunting season I'll get serious about wrapping this project up. - Nick

[Lead Pot]

A friend has a box of original .40-70 PP Sharps bottle neck for sale I would like to have, but there a little to pricy for me for what I would like to do with them
Y'all have a Merry Christmas.

Kurt

[bobw]

N2 what kind of ppb mold do you have? What do you suppose that box of original 40-70 SBN is worth or more importantly what they want for them? I used some XMP 5744 with mine but never near that velocity. bobw

[N2]

bobw - At one time C. Sharps Arms offered a base adjustable 40 caliber Lyman mould. You adjusted the threaded base plug (cupped base) to add or subtract bullet length. If I remember correctly it had a range that resulted in bullets weighing from 300-390 grains. Since the original cartridges were loaded with 330 and 370 grain PP bullets I adjusted it until my 20:1 bullets weighed 370 grains. I haven't seen it offered by them for some time.

Other than barrel break-in loads I haven't loaded anything for this or any other BPC rifle with smokeless powder for over a decade. If XMP 5744 existed back then I must have missed it. At 50 grains the IMR4320 didn't leave a lot of air space in the case and a filler was not required to keep it from hang-firing.

I'm a shooter, not a collector. I have no idea what those original cartridges are worth. - Nick

[Beruisis]

bobw, I heard all the horror stories of the BN cartridges too but I waded right in with a 40/90 & never regretted it. Extraction is as easy as anything else & fouling has never been a problem for me with both Goex or Swiss.
Dive in, the water's fine.