44-60 SBN

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Nuclearcricket
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44-60 SBN

Post by Nuclearcricket »

Wasn't sure what section to put this question in so I figured I would just stick it here and see what happens. Can anyone fill me in on the use and history of this cartridge? Its a bit on the interesting looking side, 1 7/8" long. I ordered a case from BACO just to take a look at it and think. They make them from reformed .348 Win cases. With some older (in a blue and white metal can) 1 1/2 siwss it holds just over 43 grains to the bottom of the neck. I do feel that this will probably increase once it is fired if the chamber is actually cut like its big brother the 44-77, and the shoulder moves forward.
Any toughs and input would be greatly appreciated.
TIA
Sam
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desert deuce
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Re: 44-60 SBN

Post by desert deuce »

Sounds exotic. You didn't post what you imagine doing with such a rifle chambered for this cartridge?

At first thought it sounds like it might be useful with smokeless powder for gong matches as is the 45-60.

Does creating a smokeless use rifle in a black powder cartridge appeal to you?

If you are enamored with .44 caliber and black powder had you considered the 44 Maynard AKA 44-70 which is based on the 45-70 case which will easily reach out to reasonable distances for silhouette or target competition?
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
Nuclearcricket
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Re: 44-60 SBN

Post by Nuclearcricket »

My thoughts were BP only, and most likely PP bullets. Looking for something with light recoil and enough grunt to knock down those sillywet critters. As I have gotten older recoil has kind of become a problem. I have a 45-70, 40-65. 38-55 and a 44-77. I have 2 actions that will eventually be built and a GM 44 barrel with a 16" twist. Most likely this caliber will end up on a Hepburn action. The other action is a rolling block Egyptian action and there is a good chance it will end up being a .22 rimfire.
Kind of thinking this cartridge might not be all that much different in stature to the 40-50 bottle neck.
Sam
MikeT
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Re: 44-60 SBN

Post by MikeT »

Here is an idea: Get a 480-500 grain 0.444" bullet and wrap it to 0.450" diameter, then put 2 each 1/8" cork wads over the reduced powder charge in your 45-70. 1Fg Swiss is my recommendation. Then try that for reduced recoil.

The 44-60 Sharps you are considering is only 5 grains of water less capacity than a 45-70 case. You can easily down-load a 45-70 to the level of the 44-60.

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT
bobw
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Re: 44-60 SBN

Post by bobw »

44/60 SBN a cartridge that was never chambered in a Sharps rifle just had the name sorta like the 3.25" 40, 45, 50 caliber cartridges. bobw
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desert deuce
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Re: 44-60 SBN

Post by desert deuce »

Nuclear Cricket...…..have you personally verified that your GM .44 caliber barrel is actually 16 twist and not 17 twist?

And yes, you describe a similar cartridge height to the 40-50 SS and 40-50 SBN

As Mike suggested with the 45-70 a similar adjustment can be accomplished with the 40-65 in a 12 pound rifle
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
Nuclearcricket
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Re: 44-60 SBN

Post by Nuclearcricket »

I have not verified the twist but will, I did ask when I purchased it and was told it was 16. It did seem to be an odd twist as I had never seen that from GM before, but will check it in the morning and post the results.
As far as the 45 goes, I have a load for that that seems to shoot very well and don't like to mess with things that work. The 40 I have not really worked with much. It didn't seem to shoo well from the get go but I did figure out one problem that was being caused by me. The other thing I don't much care for about that rifle is that its a straight grip stock and a Browning 78 action and it wacks my finger each shot, not a lot of fun. But it does fit nicely in the collection, a sharps, high wall, roller and the hepburn will round out things. The 44-60 just seems like it would be a nice cartirdge and so far all I have invested is the price of one case. It will be a while till the hepburn action is any where near ready to have a barrel screwed on and the 44-70 is also an attractive option except for the recoil. Right now I am in the research mode. I like to gather as much information as possible before I pull the trigger on a project. I don't even know who has any reamer prints that I could get a reamer made. Most likely it will be a dedicated PP chamber this time.
Sam
Nuclearcricket
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Re: 44-60 SBN

Post by Nuclearcricket »

Ok I did dig the barrel out and check the twist. I was going by what I was told by the person I purchased it from, he said he checked it twice. I also checked it twice and it is infact a 17" twist, same as my other GM 44 barrrel.
Now that this is cleared up, it still doesn't get me any closer to learning anything about the 44-60 BN.
Sam
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desert deuce
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Re: 44-60 SBN

Post by desert deuce »

Sam, have you considered the possibility that there is something inherent in the cartridge that precludes it's popularity and promotes it's obscurity?
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
Nuclearcricket
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Re: 44-60 SBN

Post by Nuclearcricket »

nope never thought about that. But figured there must be some demand and use for it or else BACO wouldn't go to the trouble of making brass for it. It had to have lived at some point in time. perhaps not as a sharps round but more likely as a Remington round of some sort. Worse comes to worse if it don't pan out I can always have a 44-77 reamer run in to the chamber and I do know that is a good round.
Other thoughts are that it would probably make a very good brush gun in a lever action. Perhaps something like the 71 copies Pedrosoli is making, the only draw back might be the rim diameter but that could easily be changed if need be to fit the bolt face and the feed tube. A 400 gr flat point bullet or so and a good charge of smokeless should provide a pretty good romping stomping round for most any game in the brush and the bottle neck would sure make feeding easy in a lever gun. Might even work in those funny guns with the handle that sticks out to the side that gets in the way of everything.
Sam
art ruggiero
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Re: 44-60 SBN

Post by art ruggiero »

keep in mind that bottleneck cases limit your ability to play with loads due to having to keep the wad in the somewhat short necks art
Clarence
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Re: 44-60 SBN

Post by Clarence »

See Zack's post above.

Much more likely that someone else would consider your rifle more desirable when you're finished with it if you used a more common cartridge. Even the .44-70 would be much better than the .44-60. Don't forget that BA may not make those oddball cartridges forever...

Clarence
Nuclearcricket
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Re: 44-60 SBN

Post by Nuclearcricket »

For a long time I thought that those that contributed to this forum had a wealth of knowledge that they have gained over the years. Well it seems that I am wrong. Most just want to spout opinion and it appears a lot can't read or grasp things printed in simple English. I was seeking information on a particular cartridge. I have gotten nothing. Even the posting of case capacity was wrong. A 45-70 case holds 15 grains more of powder than the reformed .348 case.
It shouldn't make any difference what I want to use the round for, I wanted a history lesson. I didn't ask for opinion but I got it on what would be best to use in my 44 barrel. Why the hell would I go with a 44-70? What will it do that my 45 will not? The 44 is much more limited in bullet selectin that most any other caliber. I have 45 molds from 350 gr up to 545 gr. I don't need another rifle to rattle my teeth, my 45 will do that just fine depending on what I stuff into the case.
Kind of seems that many are just flat out scared of the bottle neck cases. Yet there are those out there that take the time to learn what makes them work and they seem to work very well, they just take a bit more work.
I do think that the most that have replied to this thread should go back and re read the initial post and then look at what you posted, you all flat out missed the mark. Its just sad.
Sam
semtav
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Re: 44-60 SBN

Post by semtav »

Boy that shell sure reminds me of my next military rifle round. 11.15 X 58r werndl. Can't give you history. Internet search is probably a better option. I know what you're going through. Once a guy gets a particular cartridge in your craw, there ain't nothing one can do but get something that shoots it. Good luck and have fun.
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Don McDowell
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Re: 44-60 SBN

Post by Don McDowell »

Sam see page 339 of Seller's book.
Would seem as it would be a pretty fair midrange/silhouette cartridge, and would do a pretty fair job on big game.
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger :?
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