38-70
-
- Posts: 3616
- Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 6:15 pm
- Location: Georgia
Re: 38-70
That and the 38-72. Dan, Doc Lay and I built 38-72's for long range on Dan's reamer design. We had custom dies made with the same reamer. Dan reversed engineered the round based on Hornady's 405 brass. We used Pac-Nor barrels. It was a trek that was expensive and not rewarding. All three of us had mixed results. Later we found there was an error with the reamer. Oh well. A lesson learned. Dan then proceeded with the 38-70 and had good luck with it.
....................................Jim
You are a ghost driving a meat covered skeleton made from stardust riding a rock floating through space.
Fear nothing. (anon)……………………
You are a ghost driving a meat covered skeleton made from stardust riding a rock floating through space.
Fear nothing. (anon)……………………
-
- Posts: 11708
- Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm
Re: 38-70
I built a 38-70 on a Uberti action I worked over and had Dan help me with a bullet design but to this day I have not thoroughly worked up a good load for it ,not shooting long range or even midrange any more, up here, since the venue dried up.
I need to get back on it but have been side tracked the last few years making several smaller caliber Clang and bang guns. I have always felt the round should be a winner with the long, heavy, high BC bullets.
I need to get back on it but have been side tracked the last few years making several smaller caliber Clang and bang guns. I have always felt the round should be a winner with the long, heavy, high BC bullets.
-
- Posts: 2789
- Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:36 pm
Re: 38-70
What was the error? Perhaps that is why my .38-72 never shoots well. What is the story?Jim Kidwell wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:54 pm That and the 38-72. Dan, Doc Lay and I built 38-72's for long range on Dan's reamer design. We had custom dies made with the same reamer. Dan reversed engineered the round based on Hornady's 405 brass. We used Pac-Nor barrels. It was a trek that was expensive and not rewarding. All three of us had mixed results. Later we found there was an error with the reamer. Oh well. A lesson learned. Dan then proceeded with the 38-70 and had good luck with it.
-
- Posts: 1962
- Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:07 am
- Location: Central Wi
Re: 38-70
Indeed,
I , too would like to hear the "real story" on 38-72s. I still have Dan T's reamer and a set of dies,
tho I sold my rifle/ Krieger 10 twist barrel.
It has been said that the 38-72 is too over bore powder capacity for the caliber.
Now, lately, I came into a 10 twist 38-50. Just Had to try it.
Early results so far at 200yds, indicate possible minute of angle ability.
Need to get a scope on it as my visual acuity with the Irons is waning.
Also, NEED to have a DDEPP bullet cut for it.
beltfed/arnie
I , too would like to hear the "real story" on 38-72s. I still have Dan T's reamer and a set of dies,
tho I sold my rifle/ Krieger 10 twist barrel.
It has been said that the 38-72 is too over bore powder capacity for the caliber.
Now, lately, I came into a 10 twist 38-50. Just Had to try it.
Early results so far at 200yds, indicate possible minute of angle ability.
Need to get a scope on it as my visual acuity with the Irons is waning.
Also, NEED to have a DDEPP bullet cut for it.
beltfed/arnie
-
- Posts: 2925
- Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:06 am
- Location: Jersey Shore
Re: 38-70
My reason for asking is I have a 12" twist x 30" Lilja #4 weight barrel in 38-70. Been thinking of setting it back 1" and having it rechambered in 38-50. Obtaining brass for the 38-50 will be easier than for the 38-70 (30-40 Gov't versus .405 Hornady). CH4D offers dies for both.
The relative capacities of 38cal cartridges are (in gr's of H20):
38-55 - 52.72 (identical to the 40-50SS).
38-50 - 60.92. +15.5%
38-70 - 70.10. +15.1%
38-72 - 76.86. +9.6%
38-90 - 109.64. +42.6+
For comparison the 40-65 capacity is 68.52 and the 45-70 is 75.51.
The relative capacities of 38cal cartridges are (in gr's of H20):
38-55 - 52.72 (identical to the 40-50SS).
38-50 - 60.92. +15.5%
38-70 - 70.10. +15.1%
38-72 - 76.86. +9.6%
38-90 - 109.64. +42.6+
For comparison the 40-65 capacity is 68.52 and the 45-70 is 75.51.
Glenn
-
- Posts: 2789
- Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:36 pm
Re: 38-70
I think I heard somewhere that someone, maybe Hornady, was going to make 405 brass again. Somewhere fairly recent. You might check.
.30-40 brass is not exactly growing on trees either, but I would like to try that cartridge and I think a 12 twist is perfect. Moritz uses one and his results aren't too bad (heavily understated).
.30-40 brass is not exactly growing on trees either, but I would like to try that cartridge and I think a 12 twist is perfect. Moritz uses one and his results aren't too bad (heavily understated).
-
- Posts: 2925
- Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:06 am
- Location: Jersey Shore
Re: 38-70
Cruising a few websites of the 'usual suspects' it is easy to find both 30-40 Gov't/Krag and 45-90 brass from Win, R-P & Starline. .405 cases....... not so much. Even Gunbroker does not have much in the way of used .405 and any new I see is Bertram, which means when current stock is gone there will be no more.
Glenn
-
- Posts: 1078
- Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:32 pm
- Location: Stephens City, VA
Re: 38-70
Reeder Custom Guns had about 20,000 rounds of Hornady 405 bulk brass. I got 200 rounds several weeks ago and I was told it was going fast. phone # 928-527-4100. I hope this is not out of line. I'm not selling just providing info.
"Perfection consists not so much in doing extraordinary things as in doing ordinary things extraordinarily well"
-
- Posts: 2925
- Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:06 am
- Location: Jersey Shore
Re: 38-70
Yes, I agree on the 38-50 choice and most likely will cut down the Lilja 12" twist barrel an inch (or so) and chamber in 38-50.
Does anyone out there have a DanT spec 38-50 reamer they would be willing to rent? Would prefer to avoid the $170 to have new one ground by Manson for a single use.
Glenn
-
- Posts: 1962
- Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:07 am
- Location: Central Wi
Re: 38-70
Re. 38-50 reamer.
Don't know if they are Dan T reamers,
1. I just measured a chamber cast of a friend's 38-50,
that was fit and chambered by Steve Durren, Michigan. I like the design.
2. Also, my own 38-50 was fit and chambered by Mike Lewis. Very similar chamber dimensions compared to the
"Steve Durren" cut chamber. I do know that my 38-50 , along with my 32-40RH and my 35-55 barrel were all built
for a friend that had bought them from Dan T or at least guided into them by Dan. Dan had many of his projects
done by Mike Lewis.
There is an interesting nuance on the Steve Durren chamber: It has a two step leade from what amounts to the "I.D." of the chamber stop.
Both are Grease groove chambers/no freebore, what with PLus/Minus 0.377-0.378 Fire formed case I.D. from each of the rifles.
I am now working on DDEPP(DualDiamterEllipticalPP) bullets for mine and my friend's rifles. Difference will be mainly in
lengths for his 12 twist vs. my 10 twist barrels.
I frankly doubt Mike or Steve would rent out their reamer, but both of them are good 'smiths
to do the job.
beltfed/arnie
Don't know if they are Dan T reamers,
1. I just measured a chamber cast of a friend's 38-50,
that was fit and chambered by Steve Durren, Michigan. I like the design.
2. Also, my own 38-50 was fit and chambered by Mike Lewis. Very similar chamber dimensions compared to the
"Steve Durren" cut chamber. I do know that my 38-50 , along with my 32-40RH and my 35-55 barrel were all built
for a friend that had bought them from Dan T or at least guided into them by Dan. Dan had many of his projects
done by Mike Lewis.
There is an interesting nuance on the Steve Durren chamber: It has a two step leade from what amounts to the "I.D." of the chamber stop.
Both are Grease groove chambers/no freebore, what with PLus/Minus 0.377-0.378 Fire formed case I.D. from each of the rifles.
I am now working on DDEPP(DualDiamterEllipticalPP) bullets for mine and my friend's rifles. Difference will be mainly in
lengths for his 12 twist vs. my 10 twist barrels.
I frankly doubt Mike or Steve would rent out their reamer, but both of them are good 'smiths
to do the job.
beltfed/arnie
-
- Posts: 11708
- Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:47 pm
Re: 38-70
This is the bullet Dan helped me with in the ogive profile. It has the mini grease grooves and weights 384 grains if I remember correctly. Never did get around to working up a load for it.
Here are two other designs I've had mixed results with.
The one on the right goes about 370 grains and I forget what the other weighed.
Here are two other designs I've had mixed results with.
The one on the right goes about 370 grains and I forget what the other weighed.
-
- Posts: 2925
- Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:06 am
- Location: Jersey Shore
Re: 38-70
That 384gr bullet looks very interesting. Currently have a 360gr & 325gr BACo Money and a Brooks 340gr. All cast nice bullets. Know a couple of folks who do well with a 370gr mold from our retired CA mold maker that they shoot well.
Glenn