Why not FFF?

[gunrunner]

whoopss, yeah typo , 20ft/sec per inch barrel loss. and of course this is gun dependent , ammo limited and the usual physics law of dimenishing returns. this was an average and base on smokeless powder ammo, in a high powered rifle, so it may translate different in blackpowder rifle.

[gunrunner]

here is one article , i found, i will look for the other.

I found this in the Jan. 1996 edition of Guns & Ammo. It is in an article by Ross Seyfried titled "Barrel Length: The Secret of Top Performance!" (Yes I am a pack rat and never throw away a gun mag). The author had a 10 1/2 Ruger 44 mag pistol and chronographed the gun as he cut an inch off of the barrel. Since he cut 1 1/2 inches off the first time, the data was no good to me, so I just started with his 9 inch test and went all the way down to his 2 inch barrel. Here is his data:

240 gr Winchestr Factory SP
inches 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2
FPS 1373 1379 1329 1300 1274 1216 1146 1064
% loss* .22 2.99 2.18 2.00 4.55 5.76 7.16

280 gr LBT, LFN, 21 grns H110
inches 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2
FPS 1321 1312 1273 1239 1189 1154 1101 1008
% loss* 0.68 2.97 2.67 4.04 2.94 4.59 8.45

320gr LBT, WLN,G.C. 19.5 grns H110**
inches 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2
FPS 1205 1204 1162 1160 1128 1087 1061 976
% loss* 0.08 3.49 0.17 2.76 3.63 2.39 8.01

* The author did not calculate the Percent lost, so I did here.


nice info here is the link.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_barrel.htm


quote :

Barrel length, accuracy and ballistics

It is worth mentioning that a longer barrel is not inherently more accurate than a short barrel. Intrinsic accuracy is a matter of quality, not length. However, a longer barrel is generally better in terms of practical accuracy because a longer and therefore heavier barrel (within reason) is easier to hold relatively steady from unsupported positions; thus it is easier to shoot a long barreled rifle accurately.

The length of the rifle barrel has a direct influence on the velocity obtained from the cartridge for which it is chambered. Ballistically, longer is usually better. But for carrying, handling, and maneuvering in close quarters (like thick brush) shorter is usually better. So some sort of compromise must be reached.

Very long 27-30 inch barrels are seldom seen these days on repeating hunting rifles, although they are still occasionally found on single shot hunting rifles and target rifles. The longest barrels usually seen on hunting rifles today are 26 inches in length.

26 inch barrels are usually found on rifles chambered for high velocity magnum cartridges. A long barrel is required to burn the large amounts of slow burning powder used in this type of cartridge. Unfortunately, most repeating rifles with 26 inch barrels balance too far forward--they are muzzle heavy, and slow to swing. The long barrel seems to hang up on every limb and outcropping of rock in the area, and a hunting rifle so equipped can be very awkward carry in steep terrain.

For this reason, many magnum rifles now come with 24 inch barrels, which sacrifice some of the magnum's velocity. 24 inches is about the minimum barrel length practical for most magnum cartridges. Cut a magnum's barrel down to 22 inches and the muzzle blast and flash become intimidating. Also, magnum cartridges like the .264 Win. or 7mm Rem. lose so much velocity in a 22 inch barrel that they show little ballistic advantage over standard calibers like the .270 or .280.

The typical barrel length for a repeating hunting rifle chambered for standard high intensity cartridges, like the .243, .270, .308, or .30-06, is 22-24 inches, with 22 inches being the more common length today. This is a useful all-around barrel length for these cartridges. Such cartridges will attain higher velocity in a 24 inch barrel, but the velocity loss in a 22 inch barrel is not extreme, and a rifle with a barrel of this length usually balances and swings well.

Cartridges with smaller cases that burn less powder, like all .22 Rimfire cartridges, the .250-300, .30-30, .300 Sav., and .35 Rem., do well in 20-22 inch barrels. The very popular carbine versions of classic lever action rifles like the Winchester 94 and Marlin 336 usually come with 20 inch barrels. These short rifles ride well in a saddle scabbard, are easy to carry in rugged terrain, and handle fast in close quarters. Because they are light rifles, they balance well with a 20 inch barrel. Muzzle blast from these cartridges in a 20 inch barrel is less severe than from the larger high intensity cartridges in a 22 inch barrel.

Combine a high intensity cartridge with a 20 inch barrel, however, and the velocity drops noticeably while the blast becomes annoying. Still, a lightweight rifle with a 20 inch barrel, chambered for short action cartridges like the .243, .260 Rem, or 7mm-08, makes a very effective mountain rifle. These cartridges retain enough velocity in a 20 inch barrel to handle the occasional long shot mountain hunting presents, and the stubby barrel is less likely than longer tubes to get hung up on overhanging ledges, rocky outcroppings, and so forth.

To my mind it is hard to justify barrels much shorter than 20 inches for any purpose. I have owned rifles with 18.5 inch barrels, and in every case I wished that they had come with a 20 inch barrel. Very short barrels of standard contour (not bull barrels) tend to make the rifle muzzle light and unsteady to hold and swing. I like a rifle to balance between my hands, not toward the butt. Even .22 rimfire rifles balance better with 20-22 inch barrels, although in this instance the longer barrel has no ballistic advantage, since the .22 LR cartridge burns all of of its powder in about 16 inches. Very short barrels also increase the muzzle blast from high intensity cartridges to very annoying levels, and the velocity loss is excessive.


hope this is helpful.

[Ray Newman]

"The Powder Was FFG".

Or, "The Tale of Trigger Doctor, A .45-2.1", & A Buffalo".

www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3716

[Michael Johnson]

I think using 3Fg in a 45-70 case is a useful wayto achieve an increase in velocity. My hunting load uses 70 grains of 3Fg Swiss behind a 490 grain flatnose bullet. It is accurate and is the cleanest burning load in this gun. Velocity is 1325 fps. I imagine I could shoot anything in North America and kill it with this load. I also have a 45-100 that I have made up loads for using the same bullet. 89 grains of Swiss 3Fg only gives me 1425 fps. That is not much of an increase over the 45-70 load considering that there is almost 25% more powder. With the 45-100 just using 1F Swiss 87 grains gives velocity in excess of 1300 fps. I believe with the larger capacity BP cases there is a point of diminished return in expecting larger volumes of BP or finer granulations of BP to give ever increasing velocities. I have a friend with a 500 Holland and Holland double rifle that we loaded with 140 grains of 3Fg Swiss behind a bullet that I believe was 450 grains. These chronographed at around 1600 fps. This rifle was designed to shoot Cordite with a velocity of 1850 fps to regulate the barrels. Quite frankly I expected that much Swiss 3F to shoot faster. I guess my point is that you don't have to resort to 3F in the large capacity cases. - Mike

[gunrunner]

ok found the info. here is the listed data i was referring to.

The Remington Catalog 2003 includes a "Centerfire Rifle Velocity Vs. Barrel Length" table that shows the following velocity changes for barrels shorter or longer than the test barrel length:

MV 2000-2500 fps, the approximate change in MV per 1" change in barrel length is 10 fps.
MV 2500-3000 fps, the approximate change in MV per 1" change in barrel length is 20 fps.
MV 3000-3500 fps, the approximate change in MV per 1" change in barrel length is 30 fps.
MV 3500-4000 fps, the approximate change in MV per 1" change in barrel length is 40 fps.

The 45th Edition of the Lyman Reloading Handbook also has a table showing Center Fire Rifle Velocity Vs. Barrel Length. Their figures apply to barrels between 20 and 26 inches in length and agree with the Remington figures. The Lyman table shows the following approximate velocity changes:

[Trigger Dr]

North of 56
If you would like, I will send you a short video of the Buffalo as I made the shot. You will be surprised at the way it dropped.
PM me with your daaress if you are interested.
jim

[North of 56]

A ton of great inf, thanks guys,
Darrin

[Harlan Sage]

FFFFg as in 4F!!! Please excuse me if I misread or missed something in the earlier posts...but 4F is very DANGEROUS!

Harlan

[Jerry Williams]

North of 56, follow rdnecks advice. The man knows of what he speaks. Do not abuse your rifle with 4f. It will not work and you may regret it in several ways (recoil, high pressure, etc.). Good Luck. If you have any experince with this caliber on moose you should know that 1300 fps with a 500 gr. bullet is more then adequate for the task. Good Luck! Good Hunting! Spend time with load development and practice, practice, pratice! Trigger time is the best investment!