Primers for black powder

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TexasMac
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Primers for black powder

Post by TexasMac »

The April 2020 issue of the Shooting Times arrived in the mail today and contains an interesting 2-page article on some primer testing results for BP cartridges. Using modern test equipment, time pressure (t-p) curves were run using Goex BP & different primers. Over 1000 rounds were tested. The following are some of the Author’s comments:

“For years, I’d heard that magnum primers performed better in blackpowder cartridges. With one exception the numerical data showed the opposite. Ballistic consistence was better with standard rifle primers. The t-p curves showed even more. One typical 10-shot test with everything identical except for primers showed peak pressure with magnum primers occurred from 410 to 590 microseconds after ignition, but standard primers of the same brand produced a much smaller variation: 420 to 480 microseconds.”

The author did not mention what the one exception was. Based on shooting results, I realize this is not a revelation to many of you & it does confirm the general current-day consensus, but some shooters are still using magnum primers. FWIW, after testing several brands & types several years ago, Federal large pistol match primers resulted in the best accuracy with my Browning .40-65 BPCR & the Swiss powder loads I was using at the time. So I continue to use Federal GM150M primers with good success.

Wayne
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mdeland
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Re: Primers for black powder

Post by mdeland »

Have you had any breech block face gas cutting or peening Wayne?
hepburnman
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Re: Primers for black powder

Post by hepburnman »

Hi Wayne- Would you know if in this test that over-primer wads were used? These would prevent powder from getting into the flash hole and maybe producing the pressure-peak time variations. I do not currently use these but may start to for just-in-case reasons.

I use Fed 215M rifle primers and get very good accuracy. One test I did at 300 meters, off the bench with a 20x scope, put 3-4 shots through almost the same hole. At the time I thought that at least my 3rd and 4th shots were off the paper and I made adjustments to produce another group elsewhere. It wasn't until I went down to the target that I saw this grouping. On another occasion I put 2, maybe 3 shots through the same hole at the same distance but got frustrated as I could not see the holes at this distance due to the sun being behind the target. These two tests are not definitive proof of anything but all that I have.

I cannot say how consistent this load and primer are as during both times I was restricted to shooting at noon and only had a fairly calm period for maybe the first 10 minutes of shooting (the two tests mentioned were during this period). It is very challenging to shoot accurate groups at this distance due to varying conditions, etc. My groupings on Silhouette targets is very good however, when conditions cooperate.

I've tried CCI BR2 primers with this same load and have noticed that these loads hit about 2-3 MOAs lowe,r at the Turkeys, than the same load with Fed 215M primers. I can only think that maybe the F215M are giving me more complete burn of the powder, but not certain of this.

My powder in my reloads are heavily compressed (>0.300", 70 gr in 40-65) and I also load the bullet into the rifling. Maybe this all helps get good accuracy when using mag primers?
semtav
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Re: Primers for black powder

Post by semtav »

primers are such a conundrum.
its too bad we don't have the facility like this to just test primers , or wads, or ????

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/10/ ... -accuracy/


My most accurate load in my 40-82 with GG bullets was the GM155M magnum pistol primers with the .060 flash hole in my primers.
If I had regular holes, maybe the GM150M would have been . Or if I would have tweaked the load a little different, a whole different primer would have been.
kwilliams
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Re: Primers for black powder

Post by kwilliams »

Yup
The Houston warehouse is surely one way to get out of our Montana wind!
kw

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/10/ ... -accuracy/
Kurt
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Re: Primers for black powder

Post by Kurt »

I used Alcan Max Fire primers in my .45-3-1/4 Sharps with very good results and when they were gone I started using the Fed 215's. I never got the accuracy with CCI 200 or the other LR primers that I got using mag primers in the large capacity cases. Even my .50 does better with the white box Win mag primers.
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Glen Ring
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Re: Primers for black powder

Post by Glen Ring »

We use Pyrodex and get good accuracy with Federal 215 rifle primers. I follow recommendations of compressing Pyrodex 1/16th of an inch, use a Walters wad over the powder and Jeanne gets very good accuracy out of her Winchester 40-65. We both blow tube and have experienced no major fouling except on very hot dry days.
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Don McDowell
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Re: Primers for black powder

Post by Don McDowell »

Who was the author of the article?
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger :?
semtav
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Re: Primers for black powder

Post by semtav »

Dave Scott
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Don McDowell
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Re: Primers for black powder

Post by Don McDowell »

Haven't subscribe to any of the slick paper gun rags for quite awhile. Guess I'm not familiar with him.
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger :?
semtav
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Re: Primers for black powder

Post by semtav »

Cal Zant did the blog posted
Dave Scott did the actual shooting and writeup back in 1993
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desert deuce
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Re: Primers for black powder

Post by desert deuce »

Primer results using Goex Powder? Results could depend on powder lot, year tested, primer lot tested, etc. etc....ad infinitim

#Just Sayin" (The determining factor, always, is how the load groups on the target from any given rifle at the actual distance desired.)

For instance: What someone determined in 1994 with 1993 Goex Powder may be meaningless in 2020 with Swiss 1.5 of 2019 manufacture.

For that matter: What I determined two years ago with 2013 Swiss 1.5 may not hold true in 2020 with 2019 manufactured Swiss 1.5....

If your load will group near minute of angle or less just stay with it and go to the matches. It doesn't matter what results someone else got.

#Just Sayin" what matters is the results you get with your rifle.
Sometimes you get the chicken, and sometimes you get the feathers!
bruce m
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Re: Primers for black powder

Post by bruce m »

zack has distilled the combined posts here.
it never hurts to try different primers.
3 I always try are Russian large rifle, cci br large rifle, and federal match large pistol.
and others including rem 9 1/2, and Winchester large rifle.
with and without a wad under the primer.
and you need to shoot enough shots on paper to be meaningful groups.
note the plural of group = groups.
open minds lead to better results - zacks long range scores speak for themselves.
bruce.
ventum est amicus meus
semtav
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Re: Primers for black powder

Post by semtav »

Don McDowell wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:38 pm Who was the author of the article?
I misspoke if you were asking about waynes article. I was answering about the houston warehouse article. Two seperate things.
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Don McDowell
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Re: Primers for black powder

Post by Don McDowell »

No harm no foul Brian.
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger :?
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