BP brands

bobw · Post by **bobw** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:31 pm

Would appreciate any comments and comparisons between Elephant FFg and GOEX FFg from people who have experience with both. Fouling and performance levels? bobw

ffffgdave@yahoo.com · Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:06 am

elephent 2f is slower, compared to goex 2fg.. a better compareson for velocity would be 3f elephant to 2 fg goex.. you should get 3fg elephant if you buy very much in my opinion. i take that back, you should try both and see what works best for you.. . that was quite a few years ago and dont know if its all changed since then.. dave.

Gunny · Post by **Gunny** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:42 am

Kenny Wasserburger has probably done more shooting and testing with Elephant powder than most of the rest of us combined. I am sure that Kenny will have a say about this as soon as he see's this thread.

Now with the above little piece of information said, there are a few of us who played around with Elephant some time back. The "Rdnck" has also probably some experiance with testing of Elephant with his work for Goex. The current lots of Elephant are all old stock as the plant and all of the equipment has been sold in South America and is long gone. My own experiance with Elephant was I sure didn't find it all that much slower than Goex, but I did find it to foul about 10 times more. In hot and dry weather it was almost impossible to use, no matter how much you used the blow tube or any thing else. The fouling is and will be the problem with this powder. Once I ran up against this really bad fouling I stopped working with that powder and almost gave the remaining case I had away to some muzzle loader guys. Funny thing with that was it fouled so bad they all went back to Goex, there accuracy came back to what it had been and they sold it to some local guys to use as fertilizer on there lawns. That was the first good use of Elephant powder I ever saw, as they had pretty green lawns all summer.

Gunny

Vbull · Post by **Vbull** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:08 am

Bobw,
I've used both brands and grades of powder you list over the last few years. Elephant FFG has about the same velocity as Goex FG but fouls more. Elephant FG is really slow. Charcoal briquette slow! But this does have some good uses. Like downloading a cartridge in a heavy recoiling rifle. I shoot several trapdoors and use Elephant FG in them. The 520 grain Lyman bullet is only moving at 1000 fps and recoil is much less then with any other brand or granulation.
Now before someone comes in and says you can't hit a barn with the stuff, even if you were inside the barn. I used Elephant FG in my 45-90 match rifle last spring to set the national record in the midrange prone aggregate. (296-11) It is accurate but I did need to add more then 12 moa at each distance above my normal settings. My velocity with a 545 gr Jones bullet and about 95 gr of Elephant FG was around 1150 if I remember correctly. This was the first time I'd used this powder in a match in this particular rifle. I went to this match to shoot with my wife and did not expect to have this powder shoot as well as it did. What little Elephant powder I have left will be used in my trapdoors. Good luck, Frank M.

Jerry Williams · Post by **Jerry Williams** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 3:08 pm

bobw, You really do not have much choice here. Elephant is defunct. any powder you buy ( there is still a lot of this in inventory apparently) and use for load leveopment is a waste of time because sooner or later it is not going to be available. Between the two choices you listed Buy,Use, and delop loads with Goex. Although later lots will be a little differant, you can at least continue to get the same brand of powder. Ultimately after you have had some experience loading these guns and if you get to a point where you want to be competitive at long range, You might want to try Swiss powder. Great powder, pretty consistant from lot to lot, and expensive. Good Luck Have FUN!!!

bobw · Post by **bobw** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:48 pm

FFFFg dave ,Gunny,Vbull, and JW I thank you for your posts. I have just a couple of pounds of the ffg Elephant and was going to load it in my 40-70 2.1". Well it sounded good with 70 grs over a WLR. I used a milk carton wad and a 400 gr Lyman Snover LR. Fouled so bad I couldn't get a 3 rd shell in the chamber. your cracks on the fouling hit home real quick, you guys got any stock market tips? Well it looked to me like if I want to shoot the rest of this powder, I better have a grease cookie in the load and a cleaning rod handy. Appreciate the replies . bobw

Trigger Dr · Post by **Trigger Dr** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:03 pm

Find an re enactor group that might need cannon food, or donate it to a Hunter safety class to be used in a powder burning demo.
Jim

Jerry Williams · Post by **Jerry Williams** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:36 pm

bobw, try this to help with the fouling. Add MORE powder and compress it more. You can easily compress this stuff 3/10 of a inch. Also get (make) a blow tube and learn how to use it. Or, wipe the bore between each shot. Those are your choices. Grease cookies are a little more complilcated to load properly. If you go that rought get a mentor who has gone there, or do some reading on the subject. Use Federal 215 primers and an overprimer wad made of one thinkness of newspaper, then load powder on top of it. These things will help. I would tray anything other then grease cookies at this point. Good Luck. Make Smoke.

Timberlake · Post by **Timberlake** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:36 pm

bobw,

Buy some Swiss 1.5 and mix it 50/50 with your elephant. You will then have a mediocre gun powder. Or, try this win/win deal: buy the Swiss and use it straight up in the rifles and shoot well. Take the remaining elephant and put it on your lawn this spring and have a good looking lawn.

TL

The Montanan · Post by **The Montanan** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:50 pm

The information I got e-mail from JR Worthington at Main Powder House is that Elephunked is a musket grade powder

Soft on recoil

and much on fouling

Elephunked has its use, but not in my cartridges

thank you very much.

Kenny Wasserburger · Post by **Kenny Wasserburger** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:08 pm

Hey guys,

Saw Gunny mention my name here so i post a bit of my Elephant experiances. I have used the stuff in the past, its accuarate enough powder fouling is on the order of 3-4 times that of Goex or Swiss for that mater.

I have helped do some extensive tests with my Good Friend Tony Neilson and the recent goex powders are on par with Swiss in fouling amount left in the barrel.

My elephant loads in both my 45-70 and 45-110 placed at nationals at different times and I used Elephant to win a AA Regional Title a few years back at Pala.

Even with alot of compression Elephant wont clean up compared to Goex or Swiss, MV is much slower however some of the Elephant 25/99 lots gave near Goex velocitys but still had more fouling.

its accuarate if the temps are not too high and the humidity is not too low.

But I dont use it anymore Nuff said!

I got a bunch of Fg and FFg for sale of it if anyone wants some.

Kenny Wasserburger

Minnesota AL · Post by **Minnesota AL** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 9:51 am

Elephant was a pretty good low cost alternative. It has/had too much variance from lot to lot to make it really likeable. But the first time I ordered it Goes had just gone from $10 per can to $12 becuase of some factory problem. I got a whole case of Elephant for $6.25/Lb delivered.

And the first lot I bought was 1994 and it turned in very good velocity (about 20-40 fps low of Goex) and gave wonderful accuracy in my Trapdoors. Loads all functioned well with no cleaning required all day whether shooting 69 gr rifle loads or uncompressed 62 gr carbine loads. BTW, Elephant was denser that Goex. The 62 gr FFg Elephant load was the same volume as 55 gr Goex FFg. I still have a couple cans of that lot squirrled away.

The next lot I bought was 1997. It never seemed to shoot very well in long range events. The best loads required 74 gr with .2-.25" compression. Even then, I think a 525 gr bullet was at 1080 fps. Very slow. In my 45 Colt SAA 5.5", with a full charge of 32.5 gr under a 250 gr bullet I get about 600 fps. Swiss 1.5 gives 800 fps.

That 1997 lot is actually great Cowboy Action powder as it gives a great boom and smoke cloud while keeping recoil tolerable. And in CAS the targets are so big and close, who cares if accuracy is off a small amount. To me, that game is using BP that will work without cleaning, be real BP, and not cost a ton. Elephant is great for that. I load that 1997 FFg lot into 10 ga, 12 ga, 45 Colt, 45 S&W, 44-40 all with good results.

Al

Ted Kramer · Post by **Ted Kramer** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:44 am

I gave up on both Elephant 2fg and newer Goex 2fg and cart.(1997-2002) and either use what I have left of some 1994 Goex 2fg or Swiss 1 1/2 in my .40-70SS. The older('94) Goex was about the most consistant powder I have used. Sadly, for me, I have but 3 lbs. left. The last Goex I bought was some 2002 cart. grade and it was a real disappointment compared to the '94 2Fg. Maybe the newest Goex is back on track. I will give it a try this summer since I am hearing good reports on it and would rather use Goex than pay the high price for Swiss. I never did find a good load using the 2Fg Elephant.

In 3Fg, in my .44WCF, 2002 Swiss gave the highest velocities averaging 1335fps, 1999 Elephant 3Fg gave 1226fps, 2000 Goex 3Fgaveraged 1187fps, all loads with 34 gr. volume. Accuracy at 100 yards out of my Winchester '73 replica is good with all three powders and no difference in fouling/cleaning.