Powder measure
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Powder measure
Hi everyone been awhile. Had COVID-19. Anyway. Just wondering what’s the best powder measure for black powder. I have a rcbs regular scale. Is that as accurate as some of the digital ones. Thanks
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Re: Powder measure
I can say that my Lyman 55 powder measure does a good job for dumping black powder.
Then, I also have the habit of dumping "most" of the charge , jsut a few tenths of a grain light, then
place the charge on the pan of my Lyman 1010 powder scale and bring the charge up to exact weight with my powder dribbler.
I have complete confidence in the powder scales. For some reason, stray static amongst them, I do not trust the digitals for precision
charge weight determination. The scales, as long as they are level and the knife edge pivots are kept clean and dry, will measure
Exactly to 0.1 grain, Every Time
beltfed/arnie
Then, I also have the habit of dumping "most" of the charge , jsut a few tenths of a grain light, then
place the charge on the pan of my Lyman 1010 powder scale and bring the charge up to exact weight with my powder dribbler.
I have complete confidence in the powder scales. For some reason, stray static amongst them, I do not trust the digitals for precision
charge weight determination. The scales, as long as they are level and the knife edge pivots are kept clean and dry, will measure
Exactly to 0.1 grain, Every Time
beltfed/arnie
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Re: Powder measure
Dollar for dollar I would put more trust into a balanced beam scales than a digital.
The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"Winston Churchill
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"Winston Churchill
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Re: Powder measure
Properly-operated drum-type measures can achieve weight delivery with SD of about .15 gr. The old B&M measures will readily do this, but are cumbersome to operate. Their design FORCES you to operate the powder delivery properly. In the cartridges that most of us use, 1 grain of powder corresponds to a velocity difference of 6-7 fps. So .15 gr corresponds to ~ 1 fps velocity SD. Nobody NEEDS to do better than this. Drum measures, however, can be operated incorrectly and give delivery variances of 1/2 gr or more. Weighing powder in open-air balances is fraught with many problems, also. It is, IMHO, futile to expect any useful improvement upon careful dispensing of powder from a good drum measure.
CHRIS
CHRIS
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Re: Powder measure
I buy into what Chris just posted. He has been at this a lot longer than me, and I've been at it a day or two.
Woody
Woody
Richard A. Wood
If you are surrounded. You are in a target rich environment.
If you are surrounded. You are in a target rich environment.
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Re: Powder measure
Are you talking about the Lyman micro scales. Thanks
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Re: Powder measure
So what problems arise when using open-air balance beam scales? I've been using a Redding # 2 scale for decades without issues.rgchristensen wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 5:44 pm Properly-operated drum-type measures can achieve weight delivery with SD of about .15 gr. The old B&M measures will readily do this, but are cumbersome to operate. Their design FORCES you to operate the powder delivery properly. In the cartridges that most of us use, 1 grain of powder corresponds to a velocity difference of 6-7 fps. So .15 gr corresponds to ~ 1 fps velocity SD. Nobody NEEDS to do better than this. Drum measures, however, can be operated incorrectly and give delivery variances of 1/2 gr or more. Weighing powder in open-air balances is fraught with many problems, also. It is, IMHO, futile to expect any useful improvement upon careful dispensing of powder from a good drum measure.
CHRIS
B&M/MVA cumbersome to operate? Really?
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Re: Powder measure
I regularly use a Redding scale that I have owned for (guessing) ~ 60 years. It continues to give good service. Since it is exposed to air currents, I don't expect it to give the results that are available from laboratory-grade balances. I also have a considerable experience of using lab-grade electronic scales, and don't expect them to have the stability of response available from mechanical balances. Not that they are not useful in some instances.
Some years ago, I was given a B&M powder measure which I studied and used a little. It gave good reproducibility of delivery, but no better than a Hollywood drum-type measure. Drum measures can, however, be used incorrectly, and will then not give as good results as the B&M. I do feel that the B&M measure is cumbersome and slow to operate.
Testing of powder measures, powder scales, and evaluation of operator performance thereof requires access to precision weighing instruments and at least a rudimentary knowledge of statistics.
CHRIS
Some years ago, I was given a B&M powder measure which I studied and used a little. It gave good reproducibility of delivery, but no better than a Hollywood drum-type measure. Drum measures can, however, be used incorrectly, and will then not give as good results as the B&M. I do feel that the B&M measure is cumbersome and slow to operate.
Testing of powder measures, powder scales, and evaluation of operator performance thereof requires access to precision weighing instruments and at least a rudimentary knowledge of statistics.
CHRIS
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Re: Powder measure
The problem with any "open air" scale is the fact air currents have an effect on the weigh result. I once worked in a plant that required very accurate small sample scales. These were made by Mettler. These scales had the pan inside an enclosure. The sample was not weighed until the sliding door was closed. The sample on an electronic scale is an average of floating results. Most electronic scales use a piezo quartz strain element that can be damaged by sudden shock or trying to measure an overweight sample.
A balance scale uses gravity. This is the most reliable force in the universe. The really fine examples of a balance beam scale will be enclosed in a glass dome. I've used them all in my past employment.
A balance scale uses gravity. This is the most reliable force in the universe. The really fine examples of a balance beam scale will be enclosed in a glass dome. I've used them all in my past employment.
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Re: Powder measure
Do you get these figures from cronograph testing ?rgchristensen wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 5:44 pm Properly-operated drum-type measures can achieve weight delivery with SD of about .15 gr. The old B&M measures will readily do this, but are cumbersome to operate. Their design FORCES you to operate the powder delivery properly. In the cartridges that most of us use, 1 grain of powder corresponds to a velocity difference of 6-7 fps. So .15 gr corresponds to ~ 1 fps velocity SD. Nobody NEEDS to do better than this. Drum measures, however, can be operated incorrectly and give delivery variances of 1/2 gr or more. Weighing powder in open-air balances is fraught with many problems, also. It is, IMHO, futile to expect any useful improvement upon careful dispensing of powder from a good drum measure.
CHRIS
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Re: Powder measure
I won't answer for Chris since he may have other data, But Yes. I have, but there is a "depends" involved. The 6-7 fps depends on the caliber. I have data that shows my .45 in (.45-90) had a difference of 7fps with an additional grain of a particular lot of Swiss 1.5. I also have data that showed a different lot of Swiss 1.5 had a 10 fps difference. Both had SD's of 5/6. Does that small difference in velocity mean anything at the target? The same results when using a .38-55 but the velocity gain per grain of powder was higher. More like 10-12 fps increase.Blackstone wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:57 amDo you get these figures from cronograph testing ?rgchristensen wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 5:44 pm Properly-operated drum-type measures can achieve weight delivery with SD of about .15 gr. The old B&M measures will readily do this, but are cumbersome to operate. Their design FORCES you to operate the powder delivery properly. In the cartridges that most of us use, 1 grain of powder corresponds to a velocity difference of 6-7 fps. So .15 gr corresponds to ~ 1 fps velocity SD. Nobody NEEDS to do better than this. Drum measures, however, can be operated incorrectly and give delivery variances of 1/2 gr or more. Weighing powder in open-air balances is fraught with many problems, also. It is, IMHO, futile to expect any useful improvement upon careful dispensing of powder from a good drum measure.
CHRIS
As I've said in the past you will get a bigger bang for your buck getting quality range time, pay attention to the conditions, develop muscle memory so you can tell when your out of position and be consistent in everything you do. This is not F class. You can't weigh/measure your way into the winners circle. Realizing when good enough is good enough...........priceless.
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Re: Powder measure
Absolutely! Great reply!
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Re: Powder measure
VBull nailed it!
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Re: Powder measure
Frank blew it out of the water. Dead on.
I won two 5@200 at Raton using a RCBS charge master.
Then other gold medals were probably just luck, yet any day I can beat ‘em all at 600 yards. I won’t change.
Kenny Wasserburger
I won two 5@200 at Raton using a RCBS charge master.
Then other gold medals were probably just luck, yet any day I can beat ‘em all at 600 yards. I won’t change.
Kenny Wasserburger
We'll raise up our Glasses against Evil Forces, Singing, Whiskey for my men, Beer for my horses.
Wyoming Territory Sharps Shooter
Wyoming Territory Sharps Shooter
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Re: Powder measure
This is something I've tested more than once and never could see any difference between weighing and not weighing . I shoot around 5 - 8 k a year over the cronograph.