Paper Rings etc

Discussions of powders, bullets and loading information.

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Blackstone
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Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 11:28 am

Re: Paper Rings etc

Post by Blackstone »

K W I also feel that all you fellers that have contributed to this shooting discipline deserve credit where credit is due . Many have spent their one money and invested their time researching this sport and all deserve credit for it . U all have shared vital information that is relevant. So no offense ment to any of youns !
Kenny Wasserburger
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Re: Paper Rings etc

Post by Kenny Wasserburger »

None taken. Thank you.

Perhaps you’re missing my point.

Standard Shiloh Chamber will:
1. Shoot greasers well, they win all the time. Won with them
2. Shoot Bore Diameter PP straight sided bullets well. Won with them.
3. Shoot Patched to groove PP bullets well.
4. Shoot tapered Patch PP bullets well
5. Shoot Dual Diameter PP Bullets well. Placed well Won Scope with them.

A traditional or what ever we call it chamber. Is very limited as to what you can shoot in it.
1. Shoot Bore Diameter PP well.
2. Shoot Tapered PP well.

Won’t shoot greasers, won’t shoot Dual Diameter PP, won’t shoot Groove diameter PP.

So yeah, I remain somewhat unconvinced, as why I would limit my options, with a questionable chamber.

Kenny Wasserburger
We'll raise up our Glasses against Evil Forces, Singing, Whiskey for my men, Beer for my horses.

Wyoming Territory Sharps Shooter
Blackstone
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 11:28 am

Re: Paper Rings etc

Post by Blackstone »

Kenny Wasserburger wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:58 am None taken. Thank you.

Perhaps you’re missing my point.

Standard Shiloh Chamber will:
1. Shoot greasers well, they win all the time. Won with them
2. Shoot Bore Diameter PP straight sided bullets well. Won with them.
3. Shoot Patched to groove PP bullets well.
4. Shoot tapered Patch PP bullets well
5. Shoot Dual Diameter PP Bullets well. Placed well Won Scope with them.

A traditional or what ever we call it chamber. Is very limited as to what you can shoot in it.
1. Shoot Bore Diameter PP well.
2. Shoot Tapered PP well.

Won’t shoot greasers, won’t shoot Dual Diameter PP, won’t shoot Groove diameter PP.

So yeah, I remain somewhat unconvinced, as why I would limit my options, with a questionable chamber.

Kenny Wasserburger
Yep that's how I see it also . I got my 110 tight chambered rifle knowing I'd never want to shoot grease grove bullets in it . It has been exactly what I've wanted for many years .
martinibelgian
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Re: Paper Rings etc

Post by martinibelgian »

Best of both worlds? My no.2 musket (500/450) is actually both: with unturned necks, a tight-chambered bore dia. bullet rifle, and with turned necks, a 'normal' groove dia. chamber.
Downside is of course that no ready to use brass exists, it must all be reformed, trimmed, neckturned(or not), ....
semtav
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Re: Paper Rings etc

Post by semtav »

Something I need to explore a little further concerning paper rings.

My 42-85 brass is too short and producing some pretty substantial rings.
I didn't notice any issues when shooting blackhorn209
Patched to a loose fit in the case with an antimony alloy bullet.

Also when I switched to Black powder in it I didn't notice any issues with either the 16-1 or 12.5-1 when patched to a loose fit.

But when I went to a thicker paper, suddenly I got terrible leading.

I would just stretch my brass and be done with it, but since I don't have a sizing die, for this caliber, I have to expand the brass back to a 45 2.4, stretch the brass, resized to a 40-82, then fireform in the chamber.

I may just use it for a test bed to see what one can and can't get away with in a rifle producing paper rings.
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powderburner
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Re: Paper Rings etc

Post by powderburner »

Brian that sounds like you are at the edge of bullet slump. The thin paper allows the bullet to move a bit before bumping completely where the heavy paper allows just enough more pressure to expand the bullet in the case leaving a ring.
I have duplicated your problem with my 40-70 with black numerous times.
Dean Becker
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semtav
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Re: Paper Rings etc

Post by semtav »

Your earlier post about that is what got me thinking about trying different things first before stretching the brass
Thanks
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Don McDowell
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Re: Paper Rings etc

Post by Don McDowell »

Ive never noticed much ill affect from paper rings other than the mess on your shooting mat at the end of the day.
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger :?
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powderburner
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Re: Paper Rings etc

Post by powderburner »

That’s because you wipe. Doing so usually removes them.
Blow tubing is a different can of worms and leaves the rings in places that interfere with chambering another round.
Just different parameters for different styles.
Dean Becker
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Don McDowell
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Re: Paper Rings etc

Post by Don McDowell »

Don't always wipe, and shooting a 97 3x at 200 without wiping.. Shot 10 pigs without wiping..
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger :?
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powderburner
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Re: Paper Rings etc

Post by powderburner »

That’s because you wipe. Doing so usually removes them.
Blow tubing is a different can of worms and leaves the rings in places that interfere with chambering another round.
Just different parameters for different styles.
Let me rephrase that:
“Most normally wipe”corrected from you wipe.
“When not properly loaded” instead of just leaving rings.
Accuracy plays no part in my answer.
Sorry to insult or disparage you and your accomplishments
Dean Becker
only one gun and they are 74 s
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MYWEIGH scale merchant
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Don McDowell
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Re: Paper Rings etc

Post by Don McDowell »

Dean, read that again. I don't always wipe, I have done quite a bit , especially with the 44-77 and patched with just a blow tube.
One of the last times I was at the Quigley I shot the entire course with about a 24 using barrel sights on a 45-70, and never touched the inside of the barrel, until it was over.
Bullet design and proper loading makes a ton of difference.
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger :?
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powderburner
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Re: Paper Rings etc

Post by powderburner »

No where am I doubting your abilities.
Thought I cleared that up with the corrected post.
I’m done now
Dean Becker
only one gun and they are 74 s
3rd asst. flunky,high desert chapter F.E.S.
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Don McDowell
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Re: Paper Rings etc

Post by Don McDowell »

Not insulted nor disparaged, but I'm still waiting to hear what exactly is the problem with paper rings, if one knows they have them, even occasionally but accuracy by who evers standard isn't affected, that shooter should know enough to work with/around them, and so again, what exactly is the problem.
I will throw in that even the top of the greaser shooting crowd are largely migrating to some sort of wiping routine, and we now know that even the old hide hunters carried a wiping rod of sorts.
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger :?
kwilliams
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Re: Paper Rings etc

Post by kwilliams »

I probably get 80-90% of my paper rings back when I eject a shell. They are stuck to the case mouth, and perhaps the missing 10-20% get pushed out when swabbing. I have stretched brass and the rings are thinner but still present. My de-priming tool gets plugged up with the rings after awhile.
kw
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