Bullet mould

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A Atwood
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Re: Bullet mould

Post by A Atwood »

Dennis Armistead wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:13 pm I agree 100% with Steve. The JIM459542M5 is the bullet I would go with in a .45 2.1 if I was looking for a 1000 yd round in a 16 twist barrel.
Dennis
I’m shooting a new 30” Hartford Shiloh. Isn’t it 18” twist? Would this be as good with an 18 twist?
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Aviator
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Re: Bullet mould

Post by Aviator »

It may be OK with an 18 inch twist.
But I would probably go with a little bit shorter bullet with an 18 inch twist, for 1000 yard competition.
I know that there are a number of people shooting bullets that length with 18 twist, but I suspect most of them have larger capacity cases than 45-70, and are pushing them faster.

Of course this is just opinion, not fact. :wink:
A Atwood
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Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:30 pm

Re: Bullet mould

Post by A Atwood »

Dennis Armistead wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:13 pm I agree 100% with Steve. The JIM459542M5 is the bullet I would go with in a .45 2.1 if I was looking for a 1000 yd round in a 16 twist barrel.
Dennis
Dennis, I just read about your bullet. It says three reduced driving bands. The first two are bore diameter, and that makes sense, but the third band is .454? How would you load this bullet? Wouldn’t you have to load it in the case like a bullet with two fully reduced bands? If you left it hang out like three fully reduced bands, the third band would run into the rifling and not want to go further, thus preventing it from fully chambering.
What am I missing?
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Aviator
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Re: Bullet mould

Post by Aviator »

Lead/tin alloy bullets can be engraved into the lands fairly easily. That band which is roughly halfway between bore and groove diameter pushes easily into the rifling.
I generally have my best luck when I engrave the bullet into the lands. I suspect that it may be because that centers the nose of the bullet nicely.
You never know what will work best until you try it!
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Don McDowell
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Re: Bullet mould

Post by Don McDowell »

I can tell you with pretty good certainty gained from a bunch of burned powder and lead down range in 18 twist 45 barrels, once the bullet length starts passing the 1.42 the winds can deal you some real misery once past the 600 yard mark. The only exception is the 2 7/8 case but even then it's not uncommon to detect profile hits and egg shaped impact at the 1000 yard line.
16-1 alloy will be your friend for serious accuracy, 20-1 and 18-1 will work, but 16-1 generally wins the day.

Edit to add the 1.42 and shorter even work well in the 16 twist.
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger :?
A Atwood
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Re: Bullet mould

Post by A Atwood »

Don McDowell wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:26 am I can tell you with pretty good certainty gained from a bunch of burned powder and lead down range in 18 twist 45 barrels, once the bullet length starts passing the 1.42 the winds can deal you some real misery once past the 600 yard mark. The only exception is the 2 7/8 case but even then it's not uncommon to detect profile hits and egg shaped impact at the 1000 yard line.
16-1 alloy will be your friend for serious accuracy, 20-1 and 18-1 will work, but 16-1 generally wins the day.

Edit to add the 1.42 and shorter even work well in the 16 twist.
I wish I’d have known that a 16 twist was an option when I ordered this 2 years ago. I’d have certainly went with the faster twist. That was never offered to me and I didn’t have to choose between the two. It should be an option that you have to pick on or the other, thus forcing you to educate yourself on the proper choice. Dang
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Don McDowell
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Re: Bullet mould

Post by Don McDowell »

Your 18 twist will do just fine, lord knows there's been plenty of matches long and short won by 18 twist barrels. Just have to taylor the bullet length to the twist and velocity. The longer bullets will work great for sillhouette and midrange, but can deal fits in the long range events.
AKA Donny Ray Rockslinger :?
Aviator
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Re: Bullet mould

Post by Aviator »

There are great bullet choices for 18 inch twist 45-70 rifles.
But I would be wary of pushing the length.

Note that back in the 1870's , they were using slower twist rates than that for 1000 yard matches. But they were using more powder than a 2.1 inch case can hold.
Dennis Armistead
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Re: Bullet mould

Post by Dennis Armistead »

Don't let that 18 twist barrel leave any doubt in your mind as to it's accuracy potential. Just load a projectile with the correct length bearing surface so it remains stable at the long line. If the round has a velocity in the 1300 fps range or faster in the Money bullet nose profile, I would use 16:1 or maybe just a little harder to prevent nose slump. Not to hard or you'll get gas cutting. The M5 is a great bullet for the 2.1 because you gain more room for powder. 2F Swiss is good to use. Just so you know, you'll need to wipe in between shots with this bullet, no blow tubing. Good luck.
Dennis
Experience trumps intelligence every time.
A Atwood
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Re: Bullet mould

Post by A Atwood »

Dennis Armistead wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:35 pm Don't let that 18 twist barrel leave any doubt in your mind as to it's accuracy potential. Just load a projectile with the correct length bearing surface so it remains stable at the long line. If the round has a velocity in the 1300 fps range or faster in the Money bullet nose profile, I would use 16:1 or maybe just a little harder to prevent nose slump. Not to hard or you'll get gas cutting. The M5 is a great bullet for the 2.1 because you gain more room for powder. 2F Swiss is good to use. Just so you know, you'll need to wipe in between shots with this bullet, no blow tubing. Good luck.
Dennis
Thanks Dennis. With the 16:1 hardness, will I have any problems loading thr m5 .459 with the .454 third driving band?

I really appreciate the help fellas, and I am listening.
Dennis Armistead
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Re: Bullet mould

Post by Dennis Armistead »

A Atwood wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 9:36 am
Dennis Armistead wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:35 pm Don't let that 18 twist barrel leave any doubt in your mind as to it's accuracy potential. Just load a projectile with the correct length bearing surface so it remains stable at the long line. If the round has a velocity in the 1300 fps range or faster in the Money bullet nose profile, I would use 16:1 or maybe just a little harder to prevent nose slump. Not to hard or you'll get gas cutting. The M5 is a great bullet for the 2.1 because you gain more room for powder. 2F Swiss is good to use. Just so you know, you'll need to wipe in between shots with this bullet, no blow tubing. Good luck.
Dennis
Thanks Dennis. With the 16:1 hardness, will I have any problems loading thr m5 .459 with the .454 third driving band?

I really appreciate the help fellas, and I am listening.
No problems engaging. When setting the COAL I leave it a little long, about 1/2 the thickness of the rim. You shouldn't need a camming tool to load, just thumb pressure. I do run these through a .458 sizing die so I have equal neck tension. Make sure you anneal your brass for consistent gas seal. If you find black soot around the neck after firing, the neck is to hard.
Dennis
Experience trumps intelligence every time.
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