Kelley kos sights

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J.B.
Posts: 636
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:31 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Kelley kos sights

Post by J.B. »

We'd love to have you Keith ..so keep us in your sights. As for windage, I'm not at all familiar using the sights you have but can only say that the MVA Soule's and the Kelley Soules basically run two and half minutes per revolution of the windage drum. They are broken up into five segments at 1/2 moa per segment. The elevation just works at 1 moa per small graduation on the riser and 5 mins per graduation mark on the staff. I dont imagine you'll have any problems getting the distance on that staff, especially with your 1400 fps. My sons 40/70 would be in a similar performance ball park as your own and it gets out there fine . Just going back through some notes and we had a 200 yd setting on his rifle of 40 pts with a 1000 yd setting at 166 pts. 400 gn pp pushed by 74 gns of Swiss 1.5. .. Just a little more to confuse the issue. :wink:

Gavin.
"an experimental weapon..with experimental ammunition ? ...Lets experiment "
Aviator
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:06 pm

Re: Kelley kos sights

Post by Aviator »

Perentie wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:31 pm I have finally got around installing one of these to my Roller. I have been using a scope for load testing and now want to get sight settings for distance.
I was at 200 yds yesterday and the elevation works out at dead on 1.5 inches on the scale or as I call it 150 points. The paper with it calls it 150 MOA.
The scale goes up to 3.5 inches so I only have 2 inches or 200 points left.
Is this enough to get me to 1000 yds.?
Second question The instructions say its got 37.5 MOA windage each side of centre and that the adjustment is in .5 MOA.
Looking at the scale there is 3 main divisions each side of centre, with each divided into 5 divisions. The circumference of the knob has 5 divisions.
Where I am confused is that it says adjustment is .5 MOA. Is this the division on the knob or the division on the windage scale?
Also how do they work out the 37.5 MOA windage each side from that?
For information I built this as a PP rifle and had a pure PP reamer made to allow me to use full length .405 Win brass. I can shoot this and do not have to touch the case again except for cleaning. Just hand seat the patched bullet straight in. Load is currently 83 grains Swiss FFF as thats all I have available.
Comments appreciated.

Keith
I don't have that particular Kelley sight, but looking at the pictures this is my suspicion:

The knob divisions are 1/2 point each, so one rotation is 2-1/2 points).
One rotation of the knob will move the sliding scale one small division (2-1/2 points).
Five rotations of the knob will move the sliding scale one main division (12-1/2 points).
Moving the sliding scale three main divisions is 37-1/2 points.
bobw
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Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:52 pm

Re: Kelley kos sights

Post by bobw »

Keith, I have a old HP pavilion DVD lap top that is my game computer for solitaire and Mahong titans, you might say it isn't a real important out of date computer but it does have on Excel ballisticscomputer version one.. I don't have your actual sea level elev or bc on that bullet or you sight height above the ctr of the bore. So I did some simple subs.1000' ft elev., .445 bc but ran it zero at 200 and with a 150 setting at 200yds. So
300 set at 167
400 set at 174
500 set at 187
600 set at 201
700 set at 216
800 set at 232
900 set at 249
1000 set at 266

That looks pretty flat for bp but that's a slinky bullet and a hot load. My calcs might be off and will need fine tuning as well as range verification by actual shooting. But it is a starting point. Good choice on the bullet and ppb to boot. Bobw
bobw
Perentie
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:22 am
Location: Queensland, Australia.

Re: Kelley kos sights

Post by Perentie »

Aviator wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2023 6:49 am
Perentie wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:31 pm I have finally got around installing one of these to my Roller. I have been using a scope for load testing and now want to get sight settings for distance.
I was at 200 yds yesterday and the elevation works out at dead on 1.5 inches on the scale or as I call it 150 points. The paper with it calls it 150 MOA.
The scale goes up to 3.5 inches so I only have 2 inches or 200 points left.
Is this enough to get me to 1000 yds.?
Second question The instructions say its got 37.5 MOA windage each side of centre and that the adjustment is in .5 MOA.
Looking at the scale there is 3 main divisions each side of centre, with each divided into 5 divisions. The circumference of the knob has 5 divisions.
Where I am confused is that it says adjustment is .5 MOA. Is this the division on the knob or the division on the windage scale?
Also how do they work out the 37.5 MOA windage each side from that?
For information I built this as a PP rifle and had a pure PP reamer made to allow me to use full length .405 Win brass. I can shoot this and do not have to touch the case again except for cleaning. Just hand seat the patched bullet straight in. Load is currently 83 grains Swiss FFF as thats all I have available.
Comments appreciated.

Keith
I don't have that particular Kelley sight, but looking at the pictures this is my suspicion:

The knob divisions are 1/2 point each, so one rotation is 2-1/2 points).
One rotation of the knob will move the sliding scale one small division (2-1/2 points).
Five rotations of the knob will move the sliding scale one main division (12-1/2 points).
Moving the sliding scale three main divisions is 37-1/2 points.
Thanks a lot for that clear explanation. Makes sense now. I wish that had come with the sight instructions. Would have saved me a lot of frustration with a magnifying glass trying to count divisions.
Keith
Perentie
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:22 am
Location: Queensland, Australia.

Re: Kelley kos sights

Post by Perentie »

bobw wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:13 am Keith, I have a old HP pavilion DVD lap top that is my game computer for solitaire and Mahong titans, you might say it isn't a real important out of date computer but it does have on Excel ballisticscomputer version one.. I don't have your actual sea level elev or bc on that bullet or you sight height above the ctr of the bore. So I did some simple subs.1000' ft elev., .445 bc but ran it zero at 200 and with a 150 setting at 200yds. So
300 set at 167
400 set at 174
500 set at 187
600 set at 201
700 set at 216
800 set at 232
900 set at 249
1000 set at 266

That looks pretty flat for bp but that's a slinky bullet and a hot load. My calcs might be off and will need fine tuning as well as range verification by actual shooting. But it is a starting point. Good choice on the bullet and ppb to boot. Bobw
Thanks Bob for taking the trouble to run that for me. I will copy it into my notebook for next range day. Our range only goes to 880 yds but soon I hope to get down and shoot with JB and Gamerancher.
Perentie
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:22 am
Location: Queensland, Australia.

Re: Kelley kos sights

Post by Perentie »

J.B. wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2023 12:50 am We'd love to have you Keith ..so keep us in your sights. As for windage, I'm not at all familiar using the sights you have but can only say that the MVA Soule's and the Kelley Soules basically run two and half minutes per revolution of the windage drum. They are broken up into five segments at 1/2 moa per segment. The elevation just works at 1 moa per small graduation on the riser and 5 mins per graduation mark on the staff. I dont imagine you'll have any problems getting the distance on that staff, especially with your 1400 fps. My sons 40/70 would be in a similar performance ball park as your own and it gets out there fine . Just going back through some notes and we had a 200 yd setting on his rifle of 40 pts with a 1000 yd setting at 166 pts. 400 gn pp pushed by 74 gns of Swiss 1.5. .. Just a little more to confuse the issue. :wink:

Gavin.
They do sound similar. This bullet weighs 418 gns and is 1.425 in long. The GM barrel I imported years ago when we could is a 16 twist. I was wondering if a Jim 396-415 Money at 1.435 long would stabilise OK out there with the MV I have. Something else to try and another mold to get.
Catch up one day.
Keith
Perentie
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:22 am
Location: Queensland, Australia.

Re: Kelley kos sights

Post by Perentie »

bobw wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:13 am Keith, I have a old HP pavilion DVD lap top that is my game computer for solitaire and Mahong titans, you might say it isn't a real important out of date computer but it does have on Excel ballisticscomputer version one.. I don't have your actual sea level elev or bc on that bullet or you sight height above the ctr of the bore. So I did some simple subs.1000' ft elev., .445 bc but ran it zero at 200 and with a 150 setting at 200yds. So
300 set at 167
400 set at 174
500 set at 187
600 set at 201
700 set at 216
800 set at 232
900 set at 249
1000 set at 266

That looks pretty flat for bp but that's a slinky bullet and a hot load. My calcs might be off and will need fine tuning as well as range verification by actual shooting. But it is a starting point. Good choice on the bullet and ppb to boot. Bobw
Hi Bob.
I dont mean to be picky but there is 17 between 200 and 300. 150 + 17 = 167
and only 7 between 300 and 400, 167 + 7 = 174. Then 13 between 400 and 500 then the rest look normal.
Am I missing something here as I seem to get confused easily these days :(

Keith
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J.B.
Posts: 636
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:31 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Kelley kos sights

Post by J.B. »

Keith, we tend to shoot at some 'intermediate' distances with our club at times and my records are far from methodical. I wouldnt be surprised to see 10-13 moa btwn a 200 & 300 yd setting. My most recent outing with the 40/70 was in September and excuse the metres to yards variation but its the way the range and our match is set up. Using 414 gn. d/d Acc. pp mould. & 74 gns 1.5 Swiss.
200 mtrs @ 40 pts
300 mtrs @ 53 pts
500 mtrs @ 80 pts
... then...
800 yds @ 134 pts
900 yds @ 146 pts
1000 yds @ 166 pts
... As Bob indicated..there is always a 'caveat' in so far as one needs to get out there and see what happens. These settings relate to hits on steel also and not indicative of 'centre hits' ..on said plate each time. " I wish " :oops: This is where the paper scoring can really fine tune your load...and ones shooting...but then you already know that. 8) Too hot for me to be out at the range now. This is 'Zac' weather :wink:
..rgds.. Gavin.
"an experimental weapon..with experimental ammunition ? ...Lets experiment "
bobw
Posts: 3796
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:52 pm

Re: Kelley kos sights

Post by bobw »

bobw wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:13 am Keith, I have a old HP pavilion DVD lap top that is my game computer for solitaire and Mahong titans, you might say it isn't a real important out of date computer but it does have on Excel ballisticscomputer version one.. I don't have your actual sea level elev or bc on that bullet or you sight height above the ctr of the bore. So I did some simple subs.1000' ft elev., .445 bc but ran it zero at 200 and with a 150 setting at 200yds. So
300 set at 161
400 set at 174
500 set at 187
600 set at 201
700 set at 216
800 set at 232
900 set at 249
1000 set at 266

That looks pretty flat for bp but that's a slinky bullet and a hot load. My calcs might be off and will need fine tuning as well as range verification by actual shooting. But it is a starting point. Good choice on the bullet and ppb to boot. Bobw
Sorry about the typo should be 161 instead of 167..bobw.
bobw
semtav
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Location: Montana

Re: Kelley kos sights

Post by semtav »

J.B. wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2023 4:58 pm
... then...
800 yds @ 134 pts
900 yds @ 146 pts
1000 yds @ 166 pts
...
Gavin,

Are you sure the comeuppence from 800 to 900 is correct ? The 900-1000 looks right at about 20,
but only 12 for 8-9?
Kurt
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:28 pm
Location: Not Far enough NW in Illinois

Re: Kelley kos sights

Post by Kurt »

With my Shiloh .45-90 I get the same 20 pt. drop between 900 and 1000.

200 40
800 120
900 138
1000 158

The .44-75 ballard
200-38
800 120
900-138
1000-158
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User avatar
J.B.
Posts: 636
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:31 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Kelley kos sights

Post by J.B. »

Are you sure the comeuppence from 800 to 900 is correct ? The 900-1000 looks right at about 20,
but only 12 for 8-9?
[/quote]

.. Well Brian I'd love to say I'm sure ..but alas I'm not and may well have jotted down the settings incorrectly. Mybad ? Have checked
back again through my notes and in May, I had 126 pts for 800 and 145 for 900. The 1000 setting remains at 165/ 166 pts. This does sound a little more plausible I'll grant you :wink: The steel plate we shoot at is 6' x 6' with a 42" bull but is near impossible to spot shots consistently. So with 9 moa to play with @ 800 yds. I'm not saying its gospel :wink:
.. rgds.. Gavin.

ps. might go a long way to explaining the misses I had also :(
"an experimental weapon..with experimental ammunition ? ...Lets experiment "
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