Petroleum Products and Black Powder

[Don McDowell]

They're saying it will take something along the lines of 3.5 million gallons of water to drill and frac the wells they're putting into the Niobrara formation here in Wy,Co, and Ne.
There's 200 wells in se wy permiitted right now. Holy dry ponds batman that's a lot of water

[Don McDowell]

Dan I don't really know for sure we haven't got that deep into the thing yet. Still busy trying to get grants so we can test domestic wells for water quality ahead of the drilling. I would hope they could recycle some of it, but I'm sure there'll be loss in the process and there'll be containment problems etc.
There have been alot of water rights on the North Platte bought, sold and reallocated which isn't a really big deal. The scary part is the run on reallocating ground water. That could end up drying up some aquifers.
Then there'll be the problem of what to do with the oil and gas. If the production levels stay this active, with wells going from 300-1000 barrels a day, there isn't the pipeline and refinery capacity to use it....
Round and round we go where it stops nobody knows...

[Don McDowell]

Sam 14-16 is average.

[Don McDowell]

Yeh takes alot of Coors lite
Figure 30 acres per cow of native grass, 20 if there's alot of tame grass and you got winter feed...

[RMulhern]

Orville

Damn nigh onto 50 years ago...somewhere round that time my first ML was an old Hawken model and from probably 30 years prior to that my grandfather bought axle grease to lube the axles on his wagons! Well...I was shooting I think what they called Buffalo bullets...or something akin to that and I'd lube the grooves with grease out of that large drum! The damn thing with the iron sights would sometimes shoot me 2" groups from 100 yards using that stuff and rust be damned.....never had any! I'd lube a patch.....seat the bullet or a ball.....which actually shot better and I killed several La. whitetails shooting that dude!! On a weak moment....I gave it away and I've kicked me Irish arse several times due to that fact! I'd swab the bore after shooting with plain water....till it was dry and then run another lube patch with the same grease and NEVER had any rust! Years later when I got in the aviation business I bought another...same caliber of .45 and we had a green colored grease I bought from John Deere....used it and it shot just as well with round ball as the other rifle! Never had any rust with it either!!

MERRY CHRISTMAS to you and family sir!!

[mdeland]

I had a cousin that always said kerosene was good to clean a black powder rifle with after first using water. Probably not much different from Hoppe's 9. I never tried it so can't say. MD

[boge]

Remember, we do not want to use OUR petroleum reserves until we have sucked THEIR petroleum reserves dry first!!

[Kelley O. Roos]

Dan,

It was just an article I read a couple years ago. Do you have sources that state other wise?

Kelley O.

[Woody]

Dan,

Some of those Oil Shale formations are just West of the Rifle, CO range. In the dry creek at the range you could see some of the shale. Additionally, the government exploded a atomic bomb underground in the area to fracture the rock formations and release natural gas. They have punched so many holes in the ground out there that I expect the ground to start subsiding.

Woody

[deerhuntsheatmeup]

Gentlemen,

A Frac tank hold 500 barrels. A barrel is 42 gallons. On many a very deep well sight I have not seen over 10 frac tanks linked by the manifolds. These are 17k ft deep wells shooting for the Smackover formation. Do the math, 10 comes to 210,000 gallons of water to frac. Give or take......

Now the water in the mud pit is used over and over throughout the drilling process. So their is no way to know the comsumption, but even a large pit would not hold over 500,000 gallons of water. Again, it is used over and over after returns are gained.

Who ever said 3.5 -4 millions gallons is just blowing smoke at you. For what its worth, The 210,000 gallon frac tank volume would be enough to frac at least 3 zones in a hole.

Best, David B

[Kelley O. Roos]

I checked a place called "Oil shale and Tar sands programmatic, EIS information center". They covered the process of converting oil shale. Water is a main ingedient in converting shale into oil. It takes several barrels of water to claim 1 barrel of oil, some water is reclaimed. The process cost approx. $60.00 per barrel. Then they got into green house gas's and so on. With the water shortage in the west in looks like converting oil shale won't be all that great for years to come.

If a cheap converting oil shale proccess could be had, this country sits on shale that could be converted to 800 billion barrels of oil. Enough to support this country for 400 years.

Maybe it's propaganda in what I read or not. Were's Wikileaks when you need them

Kelley O.

[Orville]

Some of the frac jobs around here in the Bakken formation are using up to 100 frac tanks per job. Some of the legs in these wells are up to 10000 ft and longer with multiple stages.
There are hunderds of trucks on the roads hauling water to these jobs, and with many drivers not from this area and not knowing how to drive on snow and ice, it's a zoo out on the road.
After the last snow storm I heard there was like 46 trucks in the ditch in a about 70 miles.
I've seen where the trucks and pickups have gone in the ditch, and wonder what happened as the tracks just go to the ditch as if on purpose, dosn't make an sense.

[Don McDowell]

Do the math, the oil companies say it takes an AVERAGE of 5 barrels of water for a barrel of oil out of this Niobrara formation. So the 3.5 million gallons isn't out of line for a 1000 barrel a day well....
Going to be some real balancing acts going on trying to find and keep enough water for this oil boom to happen......

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Orville is quite right,

Barvid think of fracing a 2 mile long Pay Zone not a couple hundred feet or sometimes, say 2 or 3 10 to 50 foot zones in a conventional well BORE,were you set a Bridge PLUG and frac a single Zone. This is Horz drilling a much different kind of Puppy.

It takes a lot of water, I as Orville mentioned seen locations with over 100 frac tanks on Location. :shock

Even in coal bed we use 2500 to 1200 BBL to Enhance as we call it. 42X2500 is 105,000 Gal of water, with over 6000 Methane wells in the Powder river thats. 630 Million Gals used in the past 8 years alone. We get it all back or nearly all of it and Reuse the water to a great deal however, even today I put 3800 BBL alone down the Powder river at several discharge points. And I have a Small route these days, used to Put 25,000 bbl day down injection and Dischange.

KW

The Lunger

[boge]

So then, is the following assessment BS or fact?

http://wilderness.org/files/Oil-Shale-fs-water.pdf