Shiloh Rifle Forums

I can remember when P&S Sales was selling precussion and 50-70 Sharps carbines for $50 to $75. That would have been in the early 60's. Had those old catelogs around for a long time. My first Sharps was a Hartford in 44-77. Bought that in 1968 or so for $119.95 in Portland, Oregon. It was no beauty and I think the numbers were mis-matched, but it shot OK. I later had Ward Koozer sleeve the chamber and rebore it to 45-70. Then it really shot.

George

Take into consideration what we earned back in those days. What did you pay for a car, a house, etc. I do recall that when I was making a pittance compared to the money I made up to retirement, I had more 'discretionary' money or 'disposable income', if you will.
Twenty years ago, I bought a very nice Garand for $250 c/w bayonet, sling and two bandoliers of ammo. Sold it not too long ago for close to $1500.

I remember a time you couldn't have given a Sharps rifle away. No body wanted one. I borrowed an original in 45-90 once for a long range event at a BP RV. I shot it against ML's off hand out to 275 yds or so. Had I asked nicely, the owner might have parted with it for peanuts. I recall being smart enough to seat out the 405 gr bullets I shot in my H&R Trapdoor carbine, but I don't recall the powder charge.

[quote="Chief Beck"]George, I was in Norfolk, Virginia back in 1985 at a gun show and I still kick myself for not buying a 1863 percussion carbine that was in very nice condition for $400.00. At the same show they had a converted 1859 for $300.00 that was spray painted completely black! Back in 1978 I ran across a pristine Business rifle in .45 2-4/10th case length for $900.00 (I had no money at the time). My how prices have changed!Dennis[/quote]

It's good to see interest in the sharps 63 primer unit.

In the 80's I was with a Berdan Sharpshooter reenactment unit. I bought an original 1863 lock plate and fitted to my 3 banded Sharps. I had a friend who machined me a set of dies to make the pellets. I wrote to CCI co. and got the primer powder. These pellets really worked fine. Here is a pdf link about the Lawerance pellet primer unit.

http://www.berdansharpshooters.com/Lawr ... System.pdf

I'll send some photos of the die I have and the tube chargers I made to load the pellets into the primer mechanism.

Tony2

It's good to see interest in the sharps 63 primer unit.

In the 80's I was with a Berdan Sharpshooter reenactment unit. I bought an original 1863 lock plate and fitted to my 3 banded Sharps. I had a friend who machined me a set of dies to make the pellets. I wrote to CCI co. and got the primer powder. These pellets really worked fine. Here is a pdf link about the Lawerance pellet primer unit.

http://www.berdansharpshooters.com/Lawr ... System.pdf

I'll send some photos of the die I have and the tube chargers I made to load the pellets into the primer mechanism.

Tony2

Tony2 - VERY, VERY impressive! Great data and presentation.

Perhaps someday Shiloh will offer an historically correct '63 Berdan "Sharpshooter" rifle. Might make a good side line for a gunsmith.

Here is the die with small and large cup molds. I used craft copper foil and a hole punch to make the primer disks. The charging tubes were made from brass tubing, from a hobby store, and I used a dremel craft table saw to cut the strip from the tube. Hobby balsa wood for the plug and plunger for the primer tube.
I haven't made these for some time but the process still works. And yes it's a labor of love and patients.

Tony2

Marvelous, bloody marvelous! And I complain about making up paper tubes, which I just did - 125 of them. Gonna glue in the bases tomorrow.

Tony,

What you have done is amazing! It appears to be a simple set up at that! When there is a will there is a way!


Dennis

I swear I read that the priming system was hardly if ever used in the war and that they just merely used musket caps. Correct me if wrong.

Boge - you're right. I've got a few reference books where it is stated that the mechanisms went out of order under field conditions pretty quick and the troops preferred standard musket caps. Fragility of the packaged primer discs was a factor as well.

The British tested and nearly adopted the '55 Slant Breech carbine equipped with the Maynard tape priming mechanism. Through Robbins & Lawrence, they bought 6,000 carbines, 3,000 with 21" 1x72" barrels, the other 3,000 with 18-1/2" barrels and 1x48" twist. The first were .577 bore and the latter .551.

First thing they did was disable and/or remove the Maynard priming mechanism. Five regiments of cavalry and their deports were equipped with Sharps carbines and they saw service in India. The troops loved them but Whitehall didn't care for the poor gas seal which resulted in singing too many cuffs on expensive uniforms.

By the time the improved '59 version came out, other home grown designs had been tested and approved for adoption. No more Sharps carbines were ordered which nearly put the company into receivership until the advent of the Civil War.

Here is some info from Casper Trepp's book and Stevens book "USSS in the Army of the Potomac"

RECOED OF SHARPS PRIMER ISSUES TO '1'HE1st us ~~::~-~EPSlIOO'l'ERS
extracted from the papers of LTC Caspar Trepp, 1st USSS, in the
New York Historical Society
10,000 primers were "signed over to LTC Trepp ty the OrdnancQ
Office, 3d Div, III Corps, AP on 5 Jun 63.
primers were received from the Army for the Quarter ending
Jun 63 .
••••
:.There are :10 other records of primer issues in Trepp's
papers, but note the date which ~s..t of the pr imers were issued
to the companies of the 1st USSS. I believe that the tot~l
strenath of the 1st USSS at this time wasn't more than a few hundred
men. ihat ~ould mean that each man got a good supply. Contrary
to the corrment s by Stevens' in his History of Berdan's Sharpshooters,
it ~ould seem that the USSS did use good quantities of the little
primers. I have not included the figures, but there are frequent
issues of replacement primer magazine springs to the companies,
which would also indi~ate more than occasional use of the primer
system.
-,
30 Jun 63 967 to Co A
30 Jun 63 1433' to Co B
30 Jun 63 1300 to Co C
30 Jun 63 600 to Co D
30 Jun 63 800 to Co E
30 Jun 63 1800 to Co F
30 Jun 63 1600 to Co G
7 Jun 63 1167 to Co H
30 Jun 63 1533 to Co I l',
6 Jun 63 1269 to Co K
',.', .:
.-
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * .*" * * * * * * * * * ~:.
RECOlW OF SHARPS CARTRIDGE ISSUES' '1'0 THE "1s. t) us SHARPSHOOTERS
fromsnme provenance as above
TJ~ period c6vered in the papers is between Dec 62 and Aug 63 /
~O!;10 of the forms don't indicate the type of cartridge other- than
[or the Sharps, but in 12 cases they ofically refer to
t1Lin~n cartridges Ca1 52/100" and "Sharps Linen Cartridges".
While Stevens' refers to 'skin' cartridges, I'm of the halfb~
k0d opinion that if they were ever issued to the USSS the issues
~erc few and far between.

That got scrambled in the scanner. Here is the excerpt from the documents I have from Harrisburg Pa. on Berdan's Sharpshooters. I would also think that the cav units were issued primers since it would delete another action in the firing of the carbine sharps.

RECORDS OF SHARPS PRIMER ISSUES TO THE 1st U.S. Sharpshooters
extracted from the papers of LTC Caspar Trepp, 1st USSS, in the
New York Historical Society
10,000 primers were "signed over to LTC Trepp by the Ordnance
Office, 3d Div, III Corps, AP on 5 Jun 63.
15,000 primers were received from the Army for the Quarter ending
Jun 63.

There are no other records of primer issues in Trepp's
papers, but note the date which most of the primers were issued
to the companies of the 1st USSS. I believe that the total
strength of the 1st USSS at this time wasn't more than a few hundred
men. That would mean that each man got a good supply. Contrary
to the comments by Stevens' in his History of Berdan's Sharpshooters,
it would seem that the USSS did use good quantities of the little
primers. I have not included the figures, but there are frequent
issues of replacement primer magazine springs to the companies,
which would also indicate more than occasional use of the primer
system.
-,
30 Jun 63 967 to Co A
30 Jun 63 1433' to Co B
30 Jun 63 1300 to Co C
30 Jun 63 600 to Co D
30 Jun 63 800 to Co E
30 Jun 63 1800 to Co F
30 Jun 63 1600 to Co G
7 Jun 63 1167 to Co H
30 Jun 63 1533 to Co I l',
6 Jun 63 1269 to Co K

RECORDS OF SHARPS CARTRIDGE ISSUES TO THE 1st ) us SHARPSHOOTERS
From same provenance as above
The period covered in the papers is between Dec 62 and Aug 63 /
Some of the forms don't indicate the type of cartridges other than
the Sharps, but in 12 cases they specifically refer to
Linen cartridges Ca1 52/100" and "Sharps Linen Cartridges".
While Stevens' refers to 'skin' cartridges, I'm of the half
baked opinion that if they were ever issued to the USSS the issues
were few and far between.

That got scrambled in the scanner. Here is the excerpt from the documents I have from Harrisburg Pa. on Berdan's Sharpshooters. I would also think that the cav units were issued primers since it would delete another action in the firing of the carbine sharps.

RECORDS OF SHARPS PRIMER ISSUES TO THE 1st U.S. Sharpshooters
extracted from the papers of LTC Caspar Trepp, 1st USSS, in the
New York Historical Society
10,000 primers were "signed over to LTC Trepp by the Ordnance
Office, 3d Div, III Corps, AP on 5 Jun 63.
15,000 primers were received from the Army for the Quarter ending
Jun 63.

There are no other records of primer issues in Trepp's
papers, but note the date which most of the primers were issued
to the companies of the 1st USSS. I believe that the total
strength of the 1st USSS at this time wasn't more than a few hundred
men. That would mean that each man got a good supply. Contrary
to the comments by Stevens' in his History of Berdan's Sharpshooters,
it would seem that the USSS did use good quantities of the little
primers. I have not included the figures, but there are frequent
issues of replacement primer magazine springs to the companies,
which would also indicate more than occasional use of the primer
system.
-,
30 Jun 63 967 to Co A
30 Jun 63 1433' to Co B
30 Jun 63 1300 to Co C
30 Jun 63 600 to Co D
30 Jun 63 800 to Co E
30 Jun 63 1800 to Co F
30 Jun 63 1600 to Co G
7 Jun 63 1167 to Co H
30 Jun 63 1533 to Co I l',
6 Jun 63 1269 to Co K

RECORDS OF SHARPS CARTRIDGE ISSUES TO THE 1st ) us SHARPSHOOTERS
From same provenance as above
The period covered in the papers is between Dec 62 and Aug 63 /
Some of the forms don't indicate the type of cartridges other than
the Sharps, but in 12 cases they specifically refer to
Linen cartridges Ca1 52/100" and "Sharps Linen Cartridges".
While Stevens' refers to 'skin' cartridges, I'm of the half
baked opinion that if they were ever issued to the USSS the issues
were few and far between.

The fact that the primer feed springs needed frequent replacement seems to bear out the belief that the system was unreliable. What can go wrong WILL go wrong, especially when the bullets are flying.