Sharps Accuracy

Iron Horse · Post by **Iron Horse** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:08 pm

I need some of this forum’s wisdom. I have a Sharp’s #1 NRA ready for BPRC competion. It is a 40-65 with 1-16 twist. 30” half round barrel with the sights Shiloh suggested. I have shot Bench Rest competition for many years so I understand shooting techniques and trajectory. About 3 years ago I started shooting Cowboy Action shooting and got to shoot a Sharps. WOOOOOOOOOW. What a blast. So now I’m hooked and want to shot in Sharps competition. I know this is some what of a hypothetical question but here goes. What kind of accuracy can I expect out of this rifle say at 200 yards from a Bench Rest type rest..just for testing purposes. That’s to say if I have the right bullet and loads and I do my part. I am just trying to establish a base here so when I start working up loads I will know where I stand as there is no one in my area to compare my rifle to. Is there a way to pick a bullet for this gun? Does the Greenhill formula work on BP cartridge guns? Thanks for any input.

Iron Horse

Larry Gilley
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Jim Watson · Post by **Jim Watson** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 11:06 pm

I am new at this, too, but I will say 1.5 MOA.
You will read about a lot of MOA guns, but Pedersoli gives out plaques for CONSISTENTLY shooting MOA with any brand of rifle and they haven't passed out many.
I don't have a .40 but somebody will come along with a bullet recommendation. Probably something in the 420 grain range.

Iron Horse · Post by **Iron Horse** » Wed Dec 31, 2003 12:19 am

Thanks Jim,
I forgot to ask about bullet seating. Does this type of rifle like the bullet to touch the lands or jump, or does that vary from rifle to rifle and load to load. What are the most popular cases used and which primers. But I guess that also depends on personal likes and different rifles and loads.

Iron Horse

aka: Larry Gilley

Howard Haworth · Post by **Howard Haworth** » Wed Dec 31, 2003 1:02 am

Iron Horse,
I have been working with my 40-65 since Febuary this year. I started with an RCBS 400 gr. bullet with not so good results. Then went to a SACO 740 410 gr. bullet with much better results. I am avraging 3" groups at 200 yrd's with Cartridge grade Goex 63 gr. My rifle prefurs the WWLRM primer over the Federal 215. I think the rifle will do better with more trial so I just ordered one of Steve Brooks turkey killer bullet molds in about 430 gr. with 30-1 lead and with a .398 nose and first driving band to set the bullet out further to allow for more powder. I also use an .011" card wad between bullet and powder. Well thats where I am so far in this game hope some of this might be of help. Howard

Rickd · Post by **Rickd** » Wed Dec 31, 2003 6:25 am

Iron Horse. I've got the same rifle on order and have been asking the same questions. There are quite a few successful mid range 40-65 shooters posting regularly on the Forum, shooting both Shiloh's and High Walls. Kirk's recommendations on bullet size is to shoot groove diameter .408 bullets. Brooks and Paul Jones make great moulds. There are people getting good results with Goex FFg compressed .350 (three hundred fifty thousandths), and others are getting good results with Swiss 1 1/2 or 2 FF, with no compression (different powders all together).

Kirk and Steve Brooks recommend using Winchester 45-70 cases, reformed, as they will hold a few grains more powder than Starline or Remington. As far as primers go .. quite a few people use Federal 150 large pistol primers .. being careful no to seat them too deep as they can damage the breech block eventually if they're seated too deep. Others use winchester large rifle. Recommendations are to first get a powder charge and bullet that are 'working' then experiment with primers.

I've ordered a 360 grain 'chicken' bullet for 100-200 yard target and silhouette shooting, then a 420 grain bullet for 300-500 meters. Along with the MVA sights recommended by Kirk. Shiloh sells a lube .. DGL I believe .. that they have had excellent results with in a broad range of temperatures from Montana cold .. to 100 + degree (left in closed car) summer heat. Outside of those general comments, bullet casting to get consistent weight bullets, drop tubing powder charges, blow tubing your barrel 3-5 breaths between shots to keep fouling soft, and trigger time to get consistent hold, squeeze, and sight settings.

Can't wait to get mine .. have fun!!

Rick Durkin

Rickd · Post by **Rickd** » Wed Dec 31, 2003 6:29 am

Iron Horse. Forgot one VERY important facet of load prep .. neck tension. Those with experience tell me that neck tension is critical in shot to shot consistency, and the recommendation .. once you've got fire formed cases .. is to neck resize only .. and then use an expander plug for the neck that is 1-2 thousandths smaller than the bullet diameter. That is the neck tension that will give the best match accuracy. Crimping is supposedly not required .. just removing the 'bell' from the case mouth so the round will chamber. Adios!

Kelley O.Roos · Post by **Kelley O.Roos** » Wed Dec 31, 2003 11:31 am

I've got to say something about neck tension and this bell at the case mouth thing.

I feel if you end up with a bell at the case mouth and have to size the bell out of the case mouth, you've just ruined neck tension. I don't care how careful you are, you've just changed the neck tension by pushing the loaded case back into a die, you've just made the neck tension to tighter, sized the bullet a small amount at the base and put a slight crimp in the mouth. A proper expander ball will expand the case mouth to the required amount ( .001 to .002 thousandth's ) and just barely open the mouth of the case to accept the bullet base for the first driving band, seat the bullet and don't touch the loaded round to a die again. That's my feeling's and thought's anyway.

Kelley O.

Rickd · Post by **Rickd** » Wed Dec 31, 2003 5:03 pm

Kelley. That sounds like the path I'd like to take.

Jim Watson · Post by **Jim Watson** » Wed Dec 31, 2003 5:09 pm

I soon found that I could flare the case mouth enough to start and seat a bullet without damage and the round would chamber without crimp or de-flaring. One less disturbance to the cartridge, and some say the flare acts to center the shell in the chamber.

Omaha Poke · Post by **Omaha Poke** » Wed Dec 31, 2003 5:50 pm

Kelley, if I may ask, what type or brand of seating die to you use, or do you seat by hand

I was curious if you perhaps used an in-line seater? Randy Thanks

Kelley O.Roos · Post by **Kelley O.Roos** » Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:15 pm

Omaha Poke,

I use an inline seater. We made it when the rifle was chambered with the same chambering reamer.

Kelley O.

Kelley O.Roos · Post by **Kelley O.Roos** » Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:25 pm

Jim Watson,

To me a flare on the case mouth won't help center a case in the chamber. As soon as that case is shoved into the chamber and the breach block closed that determines whether the case is centered or not. The case brass is reasonably soft and can be pushed one way or the other.Whats important is bullet concentricty with the bore. So bullet concentricty with the case to the bore is a good thing. I just don't like a flare on the case mouth., bad for business.

Kelley O.

Rickd · Post by **Rickd** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 8:12 am

Kelley, what is your opinion of the Meacham 'Easy Seater' straight line seating die? Looks like an accurate tool. Shiloh is planning on offering inline seating dies at some point in the future .. made with the same reamer used to ream your chamber .. but no definitive delivery times at this point. I believe Paul Jones also sells one .. might be RCBS inline competition seating die .. with some modification.

Tejas Raz · Post by **Tejas Raz** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 11:48 am

Howdy fellow Texian. Just wanted to say Hi! and mention the Dallas Safari Club show coming up in 10 days. Shiloh will have and exhibit there and Texas Shooter and I plan to meet and gawk at the wares. Check out the "sticky" post at the top of the forums for info. Hope to see you there.

Scott

Kelley O.Roos · Post by **Kelley O.Roos** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 11:52 am

Rickd,

The Meacham like's like a cool bullet seater, it's like the old Vickerman die. You'd still need to expand right at the mouth of the case about 1/2 to 1 thousands over base band diameter to keep from shaving lead when seating the bullet. P.Jone's seating die, is the Redding micro-seater with a tighter seating plug and the correct nose profile of the bullet being seated. So either seating die would work well. I do like the adjustable seating dept of the Micro and Meacham seating die. If the Micro seating die is used, a new plug could be made and used for powder compressing and if the compression plug is made to the correct lenght, you could just change the plug out and install the seating plug and not have to readjust die. I made one for doing just that. Any thing that will help ammo concentricty is a plus.

Kelley O.