I read the following thread on the SASS Wire
http://www.sassnet.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/u ... 2;t=079819
to the effect that the August 2003 Swiss 1 1/2 is not as good as prior production.
Do the cowboys know what they are talking about?
I am due for resupply and this is worrysome.
New Lot Swiss Not so Hot?
-
Jim Watson
- Posts: 765
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2003 4:08 pm
- Location: Alabama, USA
-
Josh A.
- Posts: 922
- Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2003 7:30 pm
- Location: Texas, by God!
Swiss
Dear Jim:
I doubt there is a real problem with Swiss. There were several messages on the BP-L in regards to the new lot variance. Seems I remember that the consensus was that a bit of load development was all that was required to get it shooting again.
Josh
I doubt there is a real problem with Swiss. There were several messages on the BP-L in regards to the new lot variance. Seems I remember that the consensus was that a bit of load development was all that was required to get it shooting again.
Josh
No words of mine can hope to convey to you the ringing joy and hope embodied in that spontaneous yell: “The Americans are coming; at last they are coming!”
I hadn’t the heart to disillusion them.
John "Pondoro" Taylor
Africa 1955
I hadn’t the heart to disillusion them.
John "Pondoro" Taylor
Africa 1955
-
MLV
- Posts: 3710
- Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2003 5:21 pm
- Location: Livingston, MT
- Contact:
Because of these rumors Petro-Explo is going to send some of the Swiss powder in question to me to hand out to National Champs like Butch Ulsher (2 time Long Range Champ), Steve Brooks (2 time BPCR Silhouette Champ) and Dave Gruhler (2 time BPCR Silhouette Champ). They will test fire it and report on for accuracy and velocity. I'll try it too but my biggest win was only a Montana State Championship, so I'm not in the same class as those other guys.
When we know something we'll post it here.
When we know something we'll post it here.
-
Radar
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 5:29 pm
- Location: Texas, near an oilfield
I am using the new lot of Swiss#1 1/2. Lot # is 200.603. The granules do look a little larger than the other Swiss I had. Using the old Swiss my powder charge was 58.0 grs with no compression. To get the same powder column height I had to reduce the load by 1.5 grs.The new Swiss has a reduced load of 56.5 grs with no compression. Using the same primers and wads the accuracy is as good as the old Swiss, just had to reduce the charge to eliminate the compression. I have been using the new stuff for a month and it is okay. The Petro-Explo website has some information on it about the new lots of Swiss.
Radar
Radar
-
Michael Johnson
I agree with radar. It does not appear to be quite as dense. I am shooting a 45-100 Shiloh with a Paul Jones 45001 Creedmoor bullet. My original 1.5 Swiss load was 82 grains with very minimal compression shooting at 1290 fps (38 degrees F). To get 82 grains with the new Swiss I had to compress it 0.100 my average velocity today was 1311 fps (51 degrees F). With the difference in temperature the velocities are equivalent. Accuracy was still very good. Still very clean burning. If I didn't compress it I probably only would have had 79 grains. This was in resized Starline cases. - Mike
-
Jim Watson
- Posts: 765
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2003 4:08 pm
- Location: Alabama, USA
That is a relief.
My "coach" checked around today and found that nobody had any 2002 Swiss 1 1/2 left so ordered us a case of the "dry" stuff to shoot this season. If it does well, we will stock up so as not to get caught by future changes. If it is not as good we will use it up and hope this year's is better.
Or try some of the other stuff. No sense paying a premium price for a powder one of whose main selling points is lot-to-lot consistency, if it isn't there.
My "coach" checked around today and found that nobody had any 2002 Swiss 1 1/2 left so ordered us a case of the "dry" stuff to shoot this season. If it does well, we will stock up so as not to get caught by future changes. If it is not as good we will use it up and hope this year's is better.
Or try some of the other stuff. No sense paying a premium price for a powder one of whose main selling points is lot-to-lot consistency, if it isn't there.
-
Jim Watson
- Posts: 765
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2003 4:08 pm
- Location: Alabama, USA
Report from the Front
Me and Tom shot some of the new lot Swiss 1 1/2 today.
It is different but it is not bad. If it keeps on like today I will buy some more so as to not get caught by the next change.
I shoot a little old .38-55 with only 40.6 grains Swiss 1 1/2 and a 337 grain Lyman w. SPG over a .030" Walters wad, Federal 210 Match primer. This test was run with new prepped but not fireformed WW short brass.
All loads were 40.6 grains by weight, variations only in powder lot number and seating depth/compression. I shot two foulers to start, one fouler for each different load plus an extra fouler when changing powder lots. The individual load foulers shot into the same group as the following five so I measured them all on the target but not in velocity stats. An extra round slipped into string 1 with the old lot powder, but I doubt it skews the statistics much. The extra was neither the highest or lowest in velocity nor was it was the wide shot in the group.
1. Old lot No 1-1002, bullet seated to just cover all lube grooves,
about .13" compression. My usual 2003 load.
1119 fps SD 5.5 ES 14.6
100 yd group 7 in 1.8"
2. New lot No 200.603, bullet seated to just cover all lube grooves,
about .19" compression, same OAL as No 1. Powder measure setting was 8.5% higher to throw the same weight of powder.
1171 fps SD 4.9 ES 11.5
100 yd group 4 in 1.7"
(I moved the sights to get separate groups and cranked in too much, lost the first two shots off the paper before I figured out what I had done wrong.)
3. New lot No 200.603, bullet seated with some lube showing,
about .13" compression, same as No 1, longer OAL.
1169 fps SD 3.3 ES 8
100 yd group 6 in 2.2"
4. New lot No 200.603, bullet seated with all of top lube groove showing,
about .030" compression, less compression than No 1, longer OAL.
1163 fps SD 1.3 ES 3.4
100 yd group 6 in 1.2"
I will be doing some more shooting but the "low compression" load no 4 looks promising. More velocity and less variation than with the previous lot compressed and good accuracy at the 100 yds (All that was available today.)
I will likely have to get new elevation settings for critter ranges, though; won't 44 fps show at distance?
I don't have the numbers but Tom shot his Winchester - Badger .40-65 with the same charge weight and seating as usual, just more compression, and got about 40 fps more velocity and equal accuracy.
He had been loading .45-70s for his Shiloh with no compression and the same weight of the new, less dense powder required some. Velocity was consistent and higher than before, but he had some vertical stringing on the target. Next trial will be with the load reduced to eliminate compression in that .45-70.
It is different but it is not bad. If it keeps on like today I will buy some more so as to not get caught by the next change.
I shoot a little old .38-55 with only 40.6 grains Swiss 1 1/2 and a 337 grain Lyman w. SPG over a .030" Walters wad, Federal 210 Match primer. This test was run with new prepped but not fireformed WW short brass.
All loads were 40.6 grains by weight, variations only in powder lot number and seating depth/compression. I shot two foulers to start, one fouler for each different load plus an extra fouler when changing powder lots. The individual load foulers shot into the same group as the following five so I measured them all on the target but not in velocity stats. An extra round slipped into string 1 with the old lot powder, but I doubt it skews the statistics much. The extra was neither the highest or lowest in velocity nor was it was the wide shot in the group.
1. Old lot No 1-1002, bullet seated to just cover all lube grooves,
about .13" compression. My usual 2003 load.
1119 fps SD 5.5 ES 14.6
100 yd group 7 in 1.8"
2. New lot No 200.603, bullet seated to just cover all lube grooves,
about .19" compression, same OAL as No 1. Powder measure setting was 8.5% higher to throw the same weight of powder.
1171 fps SD 4.9 ES 11.5
100 yd group 4 in 1.7"
(I moved the sights to get separate groups and cranked in too much, lost the first two shots off the paper before I figured out what I had done wrong.)
3. New lot No 200.603, bullet seated with some lube showing,
about .13" compression, same as No 1, longer OAL.
1169 fps SD 3.3 ES 8
100 yd group 6 in 2.2"
4. New lot No 200.603, bullet seated with all of top lube groove showing,
about .030" compression, less compression than No 1, longer OAL.
1163 fps SD 1.3 ES 3.4
100 yd group 6 in 1.2"
I will be doing some more shooting but the "low compression" load no 4 looks promising. More velocity and less variation than with the previous lot compressed and good accuracy at the 100 yds (All that was available today.)
I will likely have to get new elevation settings for critter ranges, though; won't 44 fps show at distance?
I don't have the numbers but Tom shot his Winchester - Badger .40-65 with the same charge weight and seating as usual, just more compression, and got about 40 fps more velocity and equal accuracy.
He had been loading .45-70s for his Shiloh with no compression and the same weight of the new, less dense powder required some. Velocity was consistent and higher than before, but he had some vertical stringing on the target. Next trial will be with the load reduced to eliminate compression in that .45-70.
-
MikeT
- Posts: 668
- Joined: Sun May 25, 2003 7:48 pm
- Location: Saint Cloud, MN
-
Jim Watson
- Posts: 765
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2003 4:08 pm
- Location: Alabama, USA
It looks that way to me, too; but one swallow doesn't make a summer. There was one guy on the SASS Wire (yes, there are some Cowboys shooting farther than 25 yards) who did better with MORE compression. It will take some more shooting to see just where we are, I am mostly just relieved to see that it CAN be made to shoot. I saw Tom and Randy struggling with '99 Goex and would not have gotten into BPCR if it had not been for Swiss.