Need some expert advise and help. Using a Shiloh 45/70. Have shot Swiss 1.5 and got good results but I feel I could do better with it. I know that most say that you don't have to compress the charge but does anyone out their compress Swiss a little and get better results?
Was out of Swiss and tired some Goex Ctg. This particular lot was quite uniform in size, appeared hard with a slick shiney glaze. Loaded much to the same level as my Swiss using a 30" drop tube. With a small amount of compression ie: .030 it shot extremely well. Only had one can of the Goex Ctg. so I purchased two more cans, different lot. This seemed to be totally different . Smaller and softer with out the near as much glaze. Stacked to a much higher level in the cases than did the previous lot. This powder seems to like much more compression, close to .100 or more.
Is this the name of the game? Does one take the chance and buy 25 to 30 lbs. of powder and realize that this is not going to be like the stuff you bought a while back and start developing loads all over again???? It's fun but flustrating. Any help would be more than appreciated.
Swiss and Goex
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Rdurk
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I'm waiting for my rifle .. so I can't give you any recommendation based on my experience .. just the recommendations of others. RDNCK (who tests powder for GOEX), and Kirk from Shiloh, both recommend .350 compression (approximately) with Goex FFg. It seems to burn clean with very low SD's. There are 'comments' about the new shipment of Swiss to the US as not being the same consistency (less dense due to climatic conditions in Europe) as prior lots, and losing some velocity. Goex, properly compressed, is said to shoot very well by many experienced shooters. Good Shootin!
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Sharpsnut
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 12:55 am
I don't know who keeps spreading the B.S. about Swiss powder not liking compression.MANY top NRA BPCR shooterss compress their Swiss loads to one extent or the other.I myself have never seen a rifle that would not shoot BETTER when loads were compressed than when they were not.
The 3F Swiss loads I am using in my 45-70 are compressed .25" of an inch!! Do you know how I arrived at that figure?? By test load compression in increments of .005" from NO compression to over .30". Since I arrived at my current loading, my Turkey scores went way up.The last match I shot I racked up 19/20 during a two day regional shoot.The gun/load combo also shot the 4th smallest group in Pedersoli's smallest 200yard group match at Raton last year.Third place was my buddy who was shooting the same load!!
The point is,compression does NOT hurt Swiss one bit! Also,if you look at the posts on this and other forums about the new lots,it seems more compression it needed to get the velocities back up to levels which previous lots due to the new lot being less dense...
Every rifle/powder combo is a law unto itself.With ANY rifle/powder combination one should test(at the same range session if possible) at least ten rounds of each powder compression range(.about .005" increments),from no compression to what ever amount you feel comfortable with cramming into the case.Your rifle will tell you real quick what it likes and does not like.
Generally Swiss powder seems to require LESS compression than Goex needs to shoot well, but it still may require some compression in your rifle!
Don't be afraid to do it.....
The 3F Swiss loads I am using in my 45-70 are compressed .25" of an inch!! Do you know how I arrived at that figure?? By test load compression in increments of .005" from NO compression to over .30". Since I arrived at my current loading, my Turkey scores went way up.The last match I shot I racked up 19/20 during a two day regional shoot.The gun/load combo also shot the 4th smallest group in Pedersoli's smallest 200yard group match at Raton last year.Third place was my buddy who was shooting the same load!!
The point is,compression does NOT hurt Swiss one bit! Also,if you look at the posts on this and other forums about the new lots,it seems more compression it needed to get the velocities back up to levels which previous lots due to the new lot being less dense...
Every rifle/powder combo is a law unto itself.With ANY rifle/powder combination one should test(at the same range session if possible) at least ten rounds of each powder compression range(.about .005" increments),from no compression to what ever amount you feel comfortable with cramming into the case.Your rifle will tell you real quick what it likes and does not like.
Generally Swiss powder seems to require LESS compression than Goex needs to shoot well, but it still may require some compression in your rifle!
Don't be afraid to do it.....
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rk4570
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:34 pm
- Location: Portland Oregon
Sharpsnut & all...I`ve been shooting Swiss 3f in my 45/70 for a while now and Ive never used much compression because I had been told it just didnt need it. I am wondering what cases , bullet style , wad ect. you are using with that much compression??? 
Thanks for the info....
Thanks for the info....rk4570
Where ever I go...There I am !
Where ever I go...There I am !
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BWoos
- Posts: 26
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- Location: St. Maries, Id.
sharpsnut,
I'm new here and this might be a stupid question. But here it is, By compressing those loads in .005 increments what do you do to make up the difference in space? Do you seat the bullet further in? Do you add a couple more grains of powder to get more compression but end up with the same bullet seating depth? Or do you add wad material between the bullet and the powder? I'd like to know what your process would be.
Brian
I'm new here and this might be a stupid question. But here it is, By compressing those loads in .005 increments what do you do to make up the difference in space? Do you seat the bullet further in? Do you add a couple more grains of powder to get more compression but end up with the same bullet seating depth? Or do you add wad material between the bullet and the powder? I'd like to know what your process would be.
Brian
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Vbull
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Carl
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Harlan Sage
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steve witt
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Gunny
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Sharpsnut,
i just can not help but respond to your post. While it is very true that you can, and many are compressing Swiss powder, it certainly is not needed in all rifles. And Sharpsnut if you have not seen a rifle that shot Swiss with no compression well then you have not seen many rifles.
I test a lot this time of year. In most weeks when the wind is good I get to the range twice a week at least, at every one of these sessions I shoot a min of 100 rounds and sometimes as many as 125. In all three of my Silhouette rifles Swiss shoots by far best with no compression, BY FAR. I also have tried compressing Swiss and all it did was produce more fouling for me. there are some of the guys I shoot with who are comprssing there Swiss some and getting pretty good results on the target, Howver none of these guys are compressing more than about .150 or so. When these are shot over a chrony the velocity isn't very much higher and there fouling "Seems" to me to be a little worse. I'm not saying you can't compress Swiss what I am saying is it shoots just fine with no compression and that's not BS.
I will say this for you Sharpsnut, you are dedicated to your powder testing of Swiss. Lets see now you increase your compression by .005 at a time. And as you stated in your post you load and shoot 10 of each load, you also state that you went from .005 to .300 in your testing. That is 60 seperate loads of 10 each for a total of 600 hundred rounds for testing comprssion. Seeing as there is 7,000 grns of powder in a pound you shot somewhere in the area of 6 pounds of Swiss powder at between $15.00 to $20.00 a pound. Yes sir you are dedicated. There is a huge advantage to this type of testing and that is trigger time, you sure seem to be getting a lot of that.
While "No Compression" is working just fine for me and at least a few dozen other Swiss shooters, and some of us are even top BPCR Shooters. I am all for any new shooter expermenting and finding what is right for them. However I fel that these new shooters would be better served by increasing there compression in each load by a little more than .005 at a time, that can't be more than about 15 or 20 individual grains of powder. If I owned a rifle that was so paticuliar that only .005 thousandths of an inch made a big difference I never would find a load for it.
Gunny
i just can not help but respond to your post. While it is very true that you can, and many are compressing Swiss powder, it certainly is not needed in all rifles. And Sharpsnut if you have not seen a rifle that shot Swiss with no compression well then you have not seen many rifles.
I test a lot this time of year. In most weeks when the wind is good I get to the range twice a week at least, at every one of these sessions I shoot a min of 100 rounds and sometimes as many as 125. In all three of my Silhouette rifles Swiss shoots by far best with no compression, BY FAR. I also have tried compressing Swiss and all it did was produce more fouling for me. there are some of the guys I shoot with who are comprssing there Swiss some and getting pretty good results on the target, Howver none of these guys are compressing more than about .150 or so. When these are shot over a chrony the velocity isn't very much higher and there fouling "Seems" to me to be a little worse. I'm not saying you can't compress Swiss what I am saying is it shoots just fine with no compression and that's not BS.
I will say this for you Sharpsnut, you are dedicated to your powder testing of Swiss. Lets see now you increase your compression by .005 at a time. And as you stated in your post you load and shoot 10 of each load, you also state that you went from .005 to .300 in your testing. That is 60 seperate loads of 10 each for a total of 600 hundred rounds for testing comprssion. Seeing as there is 7,000 grns of powder in a pound you shot somewhere in the area of 6 pounds of Swiss powder at between $15.00 to $20.00 a pound. Yes sir you are dedicated. There is a huge advantage to this type of testing and that is trigger time, you sure seem to be getting a lot of that.
While "No Compression" is working just fine for me and at least a few dozen other Swiss shooters, and some of us are even top BPCR Shooters. I am all for any new shooter expermenting and finding what is right for them. However I fel that these new shooters would be better served by increasing there compression in each load by a little more than .005 at a time, that can't be more than about 15 or 20 individual grains of powder. If I owned a rifle that was so paticuliar that only .005 thousandths of an inch made a big difference I never would find a load for it.
Gunny
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in one pretty and well preserved piece, but to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, worn out and defiantly shouting "WOW, what a ride!"