We all know to weigh and inspect our bullets and pitch out the bad ones, and separate into lots.
I separate into lots of +/-.5 gr. and I'm wondering if I'm going to far with it. I'v heard of guys weighing +/- 1, 2 and even 3 grs. lots and still shooting tight groups.
Some of you guys out there do alot of testing, what is your results on this?
Harlan
Weighing Bullets
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Harlan Sage
- Posts: 261
- Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2003 10:07 am
- Location: Sidney, NE
Weighing Bullets
Just Shoot...EXERCISE YOUR RIGHTS!
Guns Have 2 enemies, Rust and Politicians!
Guns Have 2 enemies, Rust and Politicians!
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Gunny
- Posts: 388
- Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2002 5:41 pm
- Location: California
Harlan,
I am one of the guys that does a lot of testing, I also weigh and seperate my bullets to within a half of a grain. Because I do so much shooting I also have to do a lot of casting, seems like with practice a feller should get better with this casting thing, hasn't seemed to work for me. I read the reports of guys only getting 3 tenths of a difference in a 200 bullet casting session. Not this cowboy if I get only 2 or 3 grains difference I am damn happy. So I have a lot of culls, I gave up shooting those culls as foulers or such as I didn't want to waste any more powder. The culls all go back into the pot and hopefully next time they will be a better bullet. But I have shopt a few of these culls just to see how much of a difference 2 or 3 grains really makes. Not much at all if any. The few times I have played with this those light or heavy culls will shoot right into the group with those that only weigh within 1/2 grain. But even knowing that it probably doesn't matter I still cannot bring myself to shoot them in a match.
Gunny
I am one of the guys that does a lot of testing, I also weigh and seperate my bullets to within a half of a grain. Because I do so much shooting I also have to do a lot of casting, seems like with practice a feller should get better with this casting thing, hasn't seemed to work for me. I read the reports of guys only getting 3 tenths of a difference in a 200 bullet casting session. Not this cowboy if I get only 2 or 3 grains difference I am damn happy. So I have a lot of culls, I gave up shooting those culls as foulers or such as I didn't want to waste any more powder. The culls all go back into the pot and hopefully next time they will be a better bullet. But I have shopt a few of these culls just to see how much of a difference 2 or 3 grains really makes. Not much at all if any. The few times I have played with this those light or heavy culls will shoot right into the group with those that only weigh within 1/2 grain. But even knowing that it probably doesn't matter I still cannot bring myself to shoot them in a match.
Gunny
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in one pretty and well preserved piece, but to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, worn out and defiantly shouting "WOW, what a ride!"
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ironramrod
- Posts: 1364
- Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 1:12 pm
- Location: Dakota Territory
Harlan,
There is a potential problem with only weighing cast bullets to determine keepers and rejects. For example, let's say that we are casting a bullet with whatever alloy and caliber of rifle, and from our earlier tests we determine that the bullets that weigh 525 gr. generally shoot like a house afire; bullets practically going into the same hole (yeah I know, dream on lucky!). Further, we have also found that not all our bullets weigh exactly 525 gr., but some come out of the mould weighing 526 to 527 gr. and these bullets don't shoot quite as good as the 525 gr. bullets; no surprise there.
So now let's say we are in kind of hurry one day; we cast 100 bullets from our mould, and 75 of them weigh 525 gr. and the other 25 weigh 526gr. to 527 gr. No problem; we throw back the 25 rejects and re-melt them. Unknown to us, however, of the 75 bullets we thought were good we have 25 of them with an internal air void that actually caused the bullet to weigh 525 gr., when without the air void it would have weighed 526 or 527 gr. Unfortunately, we have included these 25 bullets that should have been rejected in with the 50 bullets that are perfect. Thus, 33% of our keeper bullets actually should have been rejected.
To make matters worse the internal air voids are not likely to be distributed at exactly the same location in the 25 bullets. These 25 bullets have the potential to some strange aerodynamics on the way to the target, and do some strange unexpected things on the target.
One way we can help correct this potential problem is by measuring the diameters of our keeper bullets as well as weighing them; from our earlier tests we really don't need to measure diameters of the 526 and 527 gr. bullets. For instance, if we have predetermined that our good 525 gr. bullets are exactly 0.4582" in diameter and the diameters of our 526 gr. and 527 gr. bullets are 0.4583" and 0.4584", respectively, we know that any 525 gr. bullet that is >0.4582" likely has an internal air void and should be rejected.
Regards
There is a potential problem with only weighing cast bullets to determine keepers and rejects. For example, let's say that we are casting a bullet with whatever alloy and caliber of rifle, and from our earlier tests we determine that the bullets that weigh 525 gr. generally shoot like a house afire; bullets practically going into the same hole (yeah I know, dream on lucky!). Further, we have also found that not all our bullets weigh exactly 525 gr., but some come out of the mould weighing 526 to 527 gr. and these bullets don't shoot quite as good as the 525 gr. bullets; no surprise there.
So now let's say we are in kind of hurry one day; we cast 100 bullets from our mould, and 75 of them weigh 525 gr. and the other 25 weigh 526gr. to 527 gr. No problem; we throw back the 25 rejects and re-melt them. Unknown to us, however, of the 75 bullets we thought were good we have 25 of them with an internal air void that actually caused the bullet to weigh 525 gr., when without the air void it would have weighed 526 or 527 gr. Unfortunately, we have included these 25 bullets that should have been rejected in with the 50 bullets that are perfect. Thus, 33% of our keeper bullets actually should have been rejected.
To make matters worse the internal air voids are not likely to be distributed at exactly the same location in the 25 bullets. These 25 bullets have the potential to some strange aerodynamics on the way to the target, and do some strange unexpected things on the target.
One way we can help correct this potential problem is by measuring the diameters of our keeper bullets as well as weighing them; from our earlier tests we really don't need to measure diameters of the 526 and 527 gr. bullets. For instance, if we have predetermined that our good 525 gr. bullets are exactly 0.4582" in diameter and the diameters of our 526 gr. and 527 gr. bullets are 0.4583" and 0.4584", respectively, we know that any 525 gr. bullet that is >0.4582" likely has an internal air void and should be rejected.
Regards
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Rickd
- Posts: 174
- Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 7:18 pm
- Location: DeLand, Florida
Gunny. I'm sitting here at the end of the day having a good beer .. I read your post .. and I know the feeling .. I almost had beer coming out my nose from laughing!! I try to take all of the 'keepers' in a 100 bullet run, and put them into 10 bullet groups .. every one the exact same weight. There might be 4-5 different weight groups.
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Harlan Sage
- Posts: 261
- Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2003 10:07 am
- Location: Sidney, NE
Monkeyboy
Good to here from you Mike, thought you may have went into hiding or something. Hope you make it to Alliance this year, how about Coydog, what's his story this year?
Check out our newly remodeled website www.sagebrushproducts.com
Do you have any info on Miller KS, I would like to put their shoots on my upcoming events page.
We are entertaining the thought of having a Sagebrush sponored shoot in Alliance at the end of Aug. this year. Any ideas toward that would be appreciated.
Harlan
Good to here from you Mike, thought you may have went into hiding or something. Hope you make it to Alliance this year, how about Coydog, what's his story this year?
Check out our newly remodeled website www.sagebrushproducts.com
Do you have any info on Miller KS, I would like to put their shoots on my upcoming events page.
We are entertaining the thought of having a Sagebrush sponored shoot in Alliance at the end of Aug. this year. Any ideas toward that would be appreciated.
Harlan
Just Shoot...EXERCISE YOUR RIGHTS!
Guns Have 2 enemies, Rust and Politicians!
Guns Have 2 enemies, Rust and Politicians!
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Rich Siegel
- Posts: 610
- Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2002 7:53 am
- Location: Maine
Folks,
I may be wrong on this point but I think the base of the bullet is more important then the total weight of the bullet. This is especially true with the heavy, long bullets (535 gr. 45 cal). When casting, I've noticed that some of my bullets have not completely filled out the base of the mold cavity. Usually, when I increase the temperature of the lead or mold, I can fill out the base. I think this might effect the bullet more then a 1% variance in total weight. But, and a BIG BUT here is that I have not tested this theory!
Rich
I may be wrong on this point but I think the base of the bullet is more important then the total weight of the bullet. This is especially true with the heavy, long bullets (535 gr. 45 cal). When casting, I've noticed that some of my bullets have not completely filled out the base of the mold cavity. Usually, when I increase the temperature of the lead or mold, I can fill out the base. I think this might effect the bullet more then a 1% variance in total weight. But, and a BIG BUT here is that I have not tested this theory!
Rich
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Harlan Sage
- Posts: 261
- Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2003 10:07 am
- Location: Sidney, NE
I still haven't seen or heard of any evidence that weighing as close as +/-.5 grs increases accuracy more than +/- 1 or 2 grs. Like what was mentioned earlier, how do I know that the bullets that I keep are not the heavies with an interior void.
Someone, please show me results.
Harlan
Someone, please show me results.
Harlan
Just Shoot...EXERCISE YOUR RIGHTS!
Guns Have 2 enemies, Rust and Politicians!
Guns Have 2 enemies, Rust and Politicians!
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Vbull
Harlan,
There is probably no way to be certain a bullet with a void that makes weight can be found without destroying it. I have cut some open and used a torch on those slugs that I suspected of having a void. Quite often they do, especially if they weigh light. I find it hard to visulize a heavy or nominal bullet with a void when all else is equal.
Although my loading technique has been called "sloppy" as compared to many other shooters, I'm somewhat fussy about my bullets. Generally speaking, I like to keep them within a range of +/- .5 grain. I know there are others that keep them exactly equal and shoot them in lots or in the order cast. But I've never done that and have been quite successful in the long range game.
I fully agree with an earlier post that the bullet bases are most important. This is what "steers" the bullet in my opinion. Sharp, even bases with the lube evenly applied without voids in the grease grooves. Although I run my bullets into a luber/sizer the die was cut so it is about .001" over the bullet dia as cast. This only applies the lube without any sizing to the slug.
I suppose if someone wanted to test voids, they could drill out pockets in the bases and fire them. Pockets spaced at different distances from center would give a measurable result. Just seems like a lot of work. Good luck. Frank M.
There is probably no way to be certain a bullet with a void that makes weight can be found without destroying it. I have cut some open and used a torch on those slugs that I suspected of having a void. Quite often they do, especially if they weigh light. I find it hard to visulize a heavy or nominal bullet with a void when all else is equal.
Although my loading technique has been called "sloppy" as compared to many other shooters, I'm somewhat fussy about my bullets. Generally speaking, I like to keep them within a range of +/- .5 grain. I know there are others that keep them exactly equal and shoot them in lots or in the order cast. But I've never done that and have been quite successful in the long range game.
I fully agree with an earlier post that the bullet bases are most important. This is what "steers" the bullet in my opinion. Sharp, even bases with the lube evenly applied without voids in the grease grooves. Although I run my bullets into a luber/sizer the die was cut so it is about .001" over the bullet dia as cast. This only applies the lube without any sizing to the slug.
I suppose if someone wanted to test voids, they could drill out pockets in the bases and fire them. Pockets spaced at different distances from center would give a measurable result. Just seems like a lot of work. Good luck. Frank M.
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RMulhern
- Posts: 7682
- Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2002 9:41 pm
- Location: North Louisiana
Weighing bullets
Harlan
Tell ya what do! Take them light ones and put 'em into ten round lots....and do the same thing with those that are heavy. Load identical....and get ya one of them MVA scopes ole Kenny Wasserberger is talking bout over on the Goex forum and pick a day when there ain't no wind....ya know...one of them "perfect days" and sit down and shoot a few groups..."lights" vs "heavies" and it might show ya something!
Tell ya what do! Take them light ones and put 'em into ten round lots....and do the same thing with those that are heavy. Load identical....and get ya one of them MVA scopes ole Kenny Wasserberger is talking bout over on the Goex forum and pick a day when there ain't no wind....ya know...one of them "perfect days" and sit down and shoot a few groups..."lights" vs "heavies" and it might show ya something!