Kirk
Everyone says your rifles shoot so well. I know that you make your own barrels. Tell me about them please. What steel do you use? Is the rifling cut, buttoned , etc.? Are they hand lapped? Cryo treated? Match chamber? Thank you for the info.
Shiloh's barrels
-
Outrider
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:30 pm
- Location: Allegan, MI
Shiloh's barrels
Remember....We get the government that we deserve.
-
Troll
- Posts: 299
- Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:15 pm
- Location: Yorktown, Va
I'm wondering myself, because I have a rifle on order. I hope they are cut-rifled and not button rifled. Button rifling leaves high spots in the rifling and stresses in the barrel. Cut rifling is more expensive and time consuming to manufacture, but the results are worth it if you are shooting competition.
-Finese is choosing the right size hammer
-
ironramrod
- Posts: 1364
- Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 1:12 pm
- Location: Dakota Territory
Gentlemen,
There was an excellent article in the fall, 2003 issue of Black Powder Cartridge News entitled Barrel Basics by Mr. Bob Glodt discussing this very subject. The article covered steels, and production methods of all the major barrel manufacturers. An excellent article and well worth reading.
Regards
There was an excellent article in the fall, 2003 issue of Black Powder Cartridge News entitled Barrel Basics by Mr. Bob Glodt discussing this very subject. The article covered steels, and production methods of all the major barrel manufacturers. An excellent article and well worth reading.
Regards
-
Kenny Wasserburger
- Posts: 4740
- Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 3:53 pm
- Location: Gillette, Wyoming
Hi Guys,
Kirk is away at a show and should be home soon. I hate to step in on the support forum but in this case I will since Kirk is gone for a bit.
All Shiloh barrels are drilled and Button rifled at the plant. The only exception to this is the 38 and 30 cal barrels.
Troll sorry but the barrels are button rifled they have a 3 micron finish which is good as it gets. The barrels are heat treated afterwords to releve the stresses. These barrels are of top quality and shoot quite well. All barrels if done right are good, be it cut or broach or Button rifled. Shiloh Chambers are in SAMI spec ranges but most folks think them a bit on the tight side. I dont agree with your asessment of the quality of a button barrel as I have shot with and competed with both types for many years now. I have two button rifled Shilohs that have over 11,300 rounds each and they shoot very well. I have spent some serrious time at the plant been on the barrel drill with Chance and also watched a few good many barrels being buttoned. A button rifled barrel in the 45 cal has had 45 tons of pressure used to rifle it. Think on that for a minute, your rifle barrrel was tested and made it past that! I have personaly seen the process and After that I am sold on them. Shiloh barrels need no lapping, a process hard to control no mater who is doing it. These barrels require no break in as many other types do. Most cut rifled barrels are rough in my opinion, not actually a bad thing but I like my barrels to shine and a good finish on the inside of the barrel, button rifled barrels do just that. I rather have a good stright button rifled barrel then a crooked cut rifle one that has had a poor lap job.
I have on more then one occasion beat cut rifled Kriggers and did it with my button rifled Shilohs. Its the same with powders beat swiss with Elephant powder and Goex too. Then again been beat by cut rifled barrels and swiss also! Its the Shooter that counts not the type of barrel or powder he or she is using.
I used too feel the same way about Cut rifled barrels as you do. However got beat by enough button rifled barrels on more then a few occasions. One learns if you compete enough to have a more open mind.
In my opinion most folks are just used to sloppy chambers.
One other thing to consider Button rifling by the method of this process the barrel is choked some at the muzzle a byproudct of this type of rifling something that costs alot and cant always be reproduced in a cut barrel with out some very expensive time in lapping.
Most folks thats me included dont really have a good idea of what it takes to make a good barrel and we just go by what we have read. I tend to think these days that a button rifled barrel when done right (which at Shiloh it is) is about as good a barrel you can buy.
Dont take my post wrong Kriggers, Obyermiers and other top Cut rifled barrels are top drawer also. And Broach rifled barrels such as Badger are also top Quality.
Shilohs are buttoned and you will not be disapointed.
Kenny Wasserburger
Kirk is away at a show and should be home soon. I hate to step in on the support forum but in this case I will since Kirk is gone for a bit.
All Shiloh barrels are drilled and Button rifled at the plant. The only exception to this is the 38 and 30 cal barrels.
Troll sorry but the barrels are button rifled they have a 3 micron finish which is good as it gets. The barrels are heat treated afterwords to releve the stresses. These barrels are of top quality and shoot quite well. All barrels if done right are good, be it cut or broach or Button rifled. Shiloh Chambers are in SAMI spec ranges but most folks think them a bit on the tight side. I dont agree with your asessment of the quality of a button barrel as I have shot with and competed with both types for many years now. I have two button rifled Shilohs that have over 11,300 rounds each and they shoot very well. I have spent some serrious time at the plant been on the barrel drill with Chance and also watched a few good many barrels being buttoned. A button rifled barrel in the 45 cal has had 45 tons of pressure used to rifle it. Think on that for a minute, your rifle barrrel was tested and made it past that! I have personaly seen the process and After that I am sold on them. Shiloh barrels need no lapping, a process hard to control no mater who is doing it. These barrels require no break in as many other types do. Most cut rifled barrels are rough in my opinion, not actually a bad thing but I like my barrels to shine and a good finish on the inside of the barrel, button rifled barrels do just that. I rather have a good stright button rifled barrel then a crooked cut rifle one that has had a poor lap job.
I have on more then one occasion beat cut rifled Kriggers and did it with my button rifled Shilohs. Its the same with powders beat swiss with Elephant powder and Goex too. Then again been beat by cut rifled barrels and swiss also! Its the Shooter that counts not the type of barrel or powder he or she is using.
I used too feel the same way about Cut rifled barrels as you do. However got beat by enough button rifled barrels on more then a few occasions. One learns if you compete enough to have a more open mind.
In my opinion most folks are just used to sloppy chambers.
One other thing to consider Button rifling by the method of this process the barrel is choked some at the muzzle a byproudct of this type of rifling something that costs alot and cant always be reproduced in a cut barrel with out some very expensive time in lapping.
Most folks thats me included dont really have a good idea of what it takes to make a good barrel and we just go by what we have read. I tend to think these days that a button rifled barrel when done right (which at Shiloh it is) is about as good a barrel you can buy.
Dont take my post wrong Kriggers, Obyermiers and other top Cut rifled barrels are top drawer also. And Broach rifled barrels such as Badger are also top Quality.
Shilohs are buttoned and you will not be disapointed.
Kenny Wasserburger
We'll raise up our Glasses against Evil Forces, Singing, Whiskey for my men, Beer for my horses.
Wyoming Territory Sharps Shooter
Wyoming Territory Sharps Shooter
-
Kenny Wasserburger
- Posts: 4740
- Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 3:53 pm
- Location: Gillette, Wyoming
Arnie,
I am not sure how long they have done it? I think and Am not sure on this but I think the barrels are heat treated twice, after rifling, and again after profiling? I could be wrong on that but as I recall thats how it is done.
Kenny Wasserburger
I am not sure how long they have done it? I think and Am not sure on this but I think the barrels are heat treated twice, after rifling, and again after profiling? I could be wrong on that but as I recall thats how it is done.
Kenny Wasserburger
We'll raise up our Glasses against Evil Forces, Singing, Whiskey for my men, Beer for my horses.
Wyoming Territory Sharps Shooter
Wyoming Territory Sharps Shooter
-
Rickd
- Posts: 174
- Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 7:18 pm
- Location: DeLand, Florida
-
Kirk
- Moderator
- Posts: 2135
- Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 7:47 pm
- Location: Big Timber
Good morning guys, I didn't forget anyone, just got back from the Safari show.
Anyway, to answer your question, Shiloh barrels are and have always been buttoned. When we bought the company in 1991 Wolf was using 11L37 steel which was good steel but not the best for the kind of shooting we do today. Around the tail end of 1992 I, with the help of some good friends in the industry switched myself over to 4150S steel. I run this steel at a 30 - 31 rockwell, pretty hard. I first run it through a heat soak, to releive it of any stress. We then drill, ream, and button the barrel, on 45 caliber the button produces around 60 ton, I like this method, because if there is a flaw in the steel this finds it, and not everyone shooting Shilohs are using these low pressure black loads. The next thing that happens, is they get hung, muzzle down and run through another heat cycle, which is the very same as chryo. only on the other end of the scale. After this, is when the barrel is inspected then matched up to a gun. Shiloh has been making barrels and guns for many, many years now and after being involved in many, many shoots I am quite confident that a Shiloh barrel will hold it's own with any of them. Look at Steve Brooks and all of his wins or this year at Raton, and for those of you that were at Raton this year know how the match was won, and how close it was back to the old good day and bad windy day and guess what day the guys shooting the Shilohs got lucky with?? If there are anymore questions please don't hesitate to call. Thanks, Kirk
Anyway, to answer your question, Shiloh barrels are and have always been buttoned. When we bought the company in 1991 Wolf was using 11L37 steel which was good steel but not the best for the kind of shooting we do today. Around the tail end of 1992 I, with the help of some good friends in the industry switched myself over to 4150S steel. I run this steel at a 30 - 31 rockwell, pretty hard. I first run it through a heat soak, to releive it of any stress. We then drill, ream, and button the barrel, on 45 caliber the button produces around 60 ton, I like this method, because if there is a flaw in the steel this finds it, and not everyone shooting Shilohs are using these low pressure black loads. The next thing that happens, is they get hung, muzzle down and run through another heat cycle, which is the very same as chryo. only on the other end of the scale. After this, is when the barrel is inspected then matched up to a gun. Shiloh has been making barrels and guns for many, many years now and after being involved in many, many shoots I am quite confident that a Shiloh barrel will hold it's own with any of them. Look at Steve Brooks and all of his wins or this year at Raton, and for those of you that were at Raton this year know how the match was won, and how close it was back to the old good day and bad windy day and guess what day the guys shooting the Shilohs got lucky with?? If there are anymore questions please don't hesitate to call. Thanks, Kirk