The end of an Era?

[desert deuce]

O.K. Buffalo Cannon, go ahead, do it.

[Don McDowell]

Yup jump right in and lay the ground work.

[Coltsmoke]

Sounds like to me all we need is some Notable Gurus, well let's see, I know, Rhoades and Kim Jidwell fits that bill.

[desert deuce]

Rhoades is busy searching the net in hopes of finding a recipe for Elephant tacos.

Dec 19 Silhouette, Dec 20 Long Range at Ben Avery, just don't ask questions about the fresh carnitas being served.

[SSShooter]

But can someone please explain to me, what in the samhell LaPierre's salary has to do with only 16 shooters showing up for the Eastern Regional Midrange match, and only 6 showing up at the Reade Pa. longrange match

How about a few $$million more spent on supporting competitive shooting (advertising, prizes, range improvements, better management at the nat'ls, etc., etc., rather than lining the pockets of those at the top. Is that why you give money to the NRA? Too make those at the top rich? There are so many things they could do that are listed in the previous several pages that I'm surprised you need to ask. We get better support from Shiloh and the other companies we depend on then we do from the NRA. On the upside for the NRA, folks like Carolyn Chin, Michele Kramer and others that I've dealt with on-line have been very responsive and top-notch in responding to any questions, etc. for our matches.

The reason I bring this thread back is another match director at the other end of the country and I recently received an e-mail from Barry Ranney informing us that he would be attending our Regional BPTR matches. The most interesting sentence was, "I will not be shooting, but will be there for anything you need my assistance with, and to meet more of the competitors that shoot BPTR and to get information from the competitors and match directors that can help make the National Match better." I'll suggest they set a week at the Whittington Center and stick with it. I'll also point Barry to this thread for other's comments.

[Don McDowell]

It's good that Barry will be out and about attending matches and "listening". Pointing him to this thread is probably a non starter he's already seen it, and heard most of it before this thread came up. He also responded to emails sent months ago, with the same ol montra that he never said they were moving the national match.. But he has no explanation as to why if he didn't say that then why was it the hot topic of discussion in the pits, on the line, and after hours during the balance of the nationals post shooters meeting, continuing on thru today? I've heard from a match director back east that his match and range was being considered to host the National sillouette matches..
I am saddened somewhat to see Willing carrying on that line of BS , and the folks that weren't there but find it perfectly acceptable to throw Kenny under the bus, for reporting what he had apparently been told about what happened in Raton, by shooters who were there and heard the very words about the nationals would be moved probably to Camp Perry..
We've heard this stuff about open communications from NRA HQ before, and so far the only response is Willing's response to Kidwell..


But I am still failing to see how LaPierres salary is tied to the piss poor attendance at the Eastern Regionals..

[SSShooter]

But I am still failing to see how LaPierres salary is tied to the piss poor attendance at the Eastern Regionals..

Guess it's because people heard you would not be here. Your absence was especially disappointing for our inaugural regional match. But, maybe, just maybe, if the NRA frees up some budget for advertising and awards and such, things will pick up. And give you some money for your travel budget. Fingers crossed. But, the biggest draw would be if you show and I can announce that ahead of time.

[Don McDowell]

But I am still failing to see how LaPierres salary is tied to the piss poor attendance at the Eastern Regionals..

Guess it's because people heard you would not be here. Your absence was especially disappointing for our inaugural regional match. But, maybe, just maybe, if the NRA frees up some budget for advertising and awards and such, things will pick up. And give you some money for your travel budget. Fingers crossed. But, the biggest draw would be if you show and I can announce that ahead of time.

Usually you can figure if attendance is low one of the first things folks look at is who is running the match.
Why does the NRA need to give you money to advertise your match? With the plethora of places that let you post your match on the internet and in print for zero to minimal cost, whining about the NRA not paying for it, speaks more about the person doing the whining than it does the NRA.
Awards? That's the match directors job. If you can't get awards either donated or find a way to get some money to pay for those awards , it's your problem, not the NRA's.
Keep trying, maybe you can come up with some reasonable tie to LaPierres salary and match attendance....

[branney]

It's good that Barry will be out and about attending matches and "listening". Pointing him to this thread is probably a non starter he's already seen it, and heard most of it before this thread came up. He also responded to emails sent months ago, with the same ol montra that he never said they were moving the national match.. But he has no explanation as to why if he didn't say that then why was it the hot topic of discussion in the pits, on the line, and after hours during the balance of the nationals post shooters meeting, continuing on thru today? I've heard from a match director back east that his match and range was being considered to host the National sillouette matches..
I am saddened somewhat to see Willing carrying on that line of BS , and the folks that weren't there but find it perfectly acceptable to throw Kenny under the bus, for reporting what he had apparently been told about what happened in Raton, by shooters who were there and heard the very words about the nationals would be moved probably to Camp Perry..
We've heard this stuff about open communications from NRA HQ before, and so far the only response is Willing's response to Kidwell..

Here is the only thing I am going to say on this topic. During the Competitors Meeting, I NEVER said that Nationals were moving in 2016. I don't know where Kenny got his information. I am not calling anyone a liar or anything like that, but the information that Kenny was given was incorrect. All that was said was we were looking at our options, and by options, meaning a possible more central location so more east coast shooters could attend and lowering the cost to everyone involved. As I also stated at the Competitors Meeting, if you know of a range that you think might be suitable for us to look at, please pass on that info to me. It's been brought up also about things were previous matches were held someplace and we took all the money and such. I can't speak on that as it sounds like it was before my time, but that is not how Dennis and I are approaching this issue. As with the move of the Smallbore Championships from Camp Perry to Bristol, IN there is an agreement that we will make. We don't expect to not pay for using a range. We don't expect a club to foot the bill for being a host range for a championship.

At this point I will tell you where we stand in regards to this issue. CAMP PERRY is out. At the meeting it was brought up that there was no back stop. I stated that I had not been to Perry before and if that was the case then that would not work for our sport. You need a backstop to be able to help the shooter gauge where misses are. Atterbury is one range that has come up as well and I see that someone here started there is no backstop there as well. I am in the process of confirming the Atterbury backstop or not.

Right now we are looking at about 3 - 4 ranges. I will be making visits to these ranges in the spring and summer when not working the Silhouette Nationals I am not sure we will find a suitable place, and that is why Dennis and I have decided to look at making BPCR and BPTR back to back, but again this is subjective to the availability that Whittington Center has for the ranges we will need. We have to schedule our matches just like everyone else and get no preferential treatment. The decision to split BPCR and BPTR was made well before either myself or Dennis were in the seats we are in now. If you have specific questions about this I urge you to write me an email or call me.

I hope you all had a Merry Christmas and have a safe and Happy New Year.

[mdeland]

So I guess in the final analysis it's not the end of an Era at all, just a mix up in communication and things will proceed pretty much as is with an eye for possible change in the future? I'd hate to have the job of trying to make people happy on a national level!

[Don McDowell]

So I guess in the final analysis it's not the end of an Era at all, just a mix up in communication and things will proceed pretty much as is with an eye for possible change in the future? I'd hate to have the job of trying to make people happy on a national level!

You might want to talk with the folks you know that were at that shooters meeting before you get to carried away with your judgements mikey..

[Woody]

Mike,

I was there in 14. I've talked with a number of current and past competitors as well as the NRA. I'm not ready to start holding hands and swaying to Cum-by-yah just yet. I'm also not ready to to call it quits with the NRA Competition Division, but--------------------------.

Woody

[Gussy]

An observation from the outside.

"the end of an era?" Yes it is. Probably exactly the same thing said by the "old guys" when shooting matches around the country started drying up. People in general aren't shooting as much for recreation as in the past. There's a million more things to do now. Other sports (mostly spectator) have come into being that didn't exist. Shooting in the past was a spectator sport. Families don't shoot or watch on Sat, they go to the kids "XXX" games or a pro game. Cities.. millions of people and you have to go many miles if you even want to plink (Chicago, Detroit, NY... well, they have they're own style of shooting galleries and tartgets).

Hollywood and X Games... No black powder shooting or games. Quigley was an exception and it did really boost the sport. We need a hundred Quigley movies!!!

Youth doesn't think as we do (I'm noticing mostly "older folks" shooing black powder or single shots) They'll spend $3000 for set of wheels and tires for a $600 car???? And put fart cans on it so it sounds like it could actually do something?? Another $3000 for a stereo that hurts ears for a hundered yards??

Todays family is "so busy" they rarely eat dinner together?? Mom Dad and the Kids going to buy $10,000 in shooting gear?? Yes, the end is near with the exception of those like us that will carry on. In our shooting group there are a few younger guys and maybe more will come if it's fun. Shoot at the "big matches" probably not. Fun matches that are local and don't require a big expense will continue.

The Quigley has expanded because it's fun, cheap, good drawing and anybody can compete. The big matches are fun, but not cheap and only a few are really competitive. Both are for bragging rights and a board with your name on it...

[Straightneck]

I have followed this with curiosity, although I don't compete I like to keep up with our shooting world , especially BP shooting.
I have had a few smiles reading this,, along with several OMG's and SMH's, , in our world of retracted statements, someone told me, I think it was or should be, I believe so but I wasn't there, denials and misrepresentations.

It's a SHAME with all the electronic gadgets there are,, someone didn't record the meeting,
because with all the;; He said, he didn't, I know's, you don'ts and the controversy this brings,,, we need to have Proof what came out of the mouth,,

Heck, even Monica knew to save the dress, Proof

We try to shoot minute of angle, we need minutes of meeting, push the button on a smart phone next meeting

That's what I think, HAPPY NEW YEAR and don't forget the dress
Mason

[Raymond Hanson]

Kenny and all A guy that once worked for me named Ben, used to say after some big shot gave a speech, "If his lips are moving he must be lying!". With all my dealings with the NRA competitive shooting division the one thing I have learned to be certain is Ben's saying has real merit when dealing with these guys! Raymond Hanson