Trends in BPCR Long Range Shooting

[desert deuce]

KW wrote: "I believe the current club officials including the 1000 yard range coordinator, have aligned to create a situation that proves difficult if not impossible to overcome. One that’s been in the works for several years. Only members have much of a say, and that requires considerable numbers to do so. Something we do not have. Since you’re old friends with the 1000 yard range coordinator Zack perhaps you can reach out too him personally your self and convince him otherwise because he is the primary driver to this conundrum, as it currently is. Your personal powers of persuasion are all that is needed or required I am sure."

I believe that I will work with what I can personally Control, as Semtav said and continue with our preparations for the 150th Anniversary of Traditional Creedmoor.

Kenny Wasserburger

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OK, you poked your good friend the Bear: As I read what you wrote I am disappointed as it sounds to me like you are embracing/encouraging defeat and that is not at all the KW I know. And, you engaged in misplacing blame based on what you have heard not based on what you know and it appears you are doing that out of convenience without thinking the situation through. I don't want you to wake up one morning, look in the mirror and say to yourself, "Dammit Kenny, You fd up." Because there will be a long line of people ready and willing to point out your mistake ad infinitum. Deflecting on to others is displaying a weak character. Essentially, to me, what you are saying is you don't care one way or the other if matches go away at Byers if you have to get involved with finding out the truth. A comparatively miniscule task. BTW, the Creedmoor 150 wherever or whenever by whomever it is held is a one trick pony. A one shot deal. Byers is a different situation altogether. You are a leader in Long Range Target, it is time for you to stand up and act like one. You are in a unique position to lead here and be the hero. Playing the part of a wimp does not become you.

Go ahead, poke your friend the Bear again. Before you do though, go splash some cold water in your face and read what I wrote above first and fully anticipate further similar advice.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Zack,

You are now doing to me, what you are accusing me of doing to you.

As my traditional Creedmoor match, isn’t a one trick Pony we been doing a lot longer than that. Over 20 years old friend, I have held such matches. And I must point out, one that you have never graced us with your attendance, not once, nary a single time in 20 plus years. Now we certainly cannot say the same about me when it comes to attending matches at Ben Avery, as I have been attending Phoenix since 2007. if you attempt to then you are only besmirching your own character. As for me f..ing up? I am not a member of the Colorado Rifle Club, nor am I personal friends with the 1000 yard range coordinator, any attempt on my part to convince him otherwise will fall on deaf ears. The 1000 yard range coordinator and the CRC call all those shots.

Kevin,
To answer a few of your questions the BPTRA wasn’t a board or group it was run entirely by Robert, Worland was affiliated with the BPTRA only, they do not have a suitable range to run 800-900 yardages. They do have a 1000 yard firing point.

As I am made to understand OKC doesn’t have pits but acoustic targets for high power which doesn’t work with our Bpcr velocities.

The individual that runs the 1000 yard range at Byers wants us out, has for several years, he has the board and the president backing on this. Takes all the strain off them.

As me being a leader in the sport, that’s subjective to opinion, and I don’t feel the same. As for me needing to look in the mirror, money out of my own pocket was spent to build my private range. Without a club or any monetary backing, what so ever. And I will spend considerably more this coming year to get the steel to the ranch and gather the necessary party to construct it to the correct dimensions to accurately recreate the original Creedmoor match of 1874.

As long as I am physically able we will continue to hold such matches. We even have correct sized 300 and 600 yard Original Creedmoor targets to hold midrange matches, if we choose too.

The individual that shut down the BPTRA access to the range, Zack ole friend he is the one who has to look in the mirror. Every day. Not you nor I. I simply stated, as his old shooting partner you possibly may have more pull than any of the rest of us, to help us all the How or Why.

What I am getting at Zack is you might possibly be the only individual who can get both sides of the coin. Maybe not.

Suffice to say, when it’s stated we are not allowed to hold a venue there, one can’t get it scheduled one probably has to take their word for it.


Many years ago I proposed a BPTR Federation, as to address our grievances against the NRA. Robert eventually formed the BPTRA, as sole proprietor and Chief Executive officer. Something had to be done along those lines, initially to get the ball rolling.

I don’t plan on jousting with windmills, I have much better things to occupy my time with, CRC is 408 miles from my doorstep. I will tend to things I can control.

Kenny Wasserburger

[VectorMan]

Thx for the explanations Kenny.



KA

[desert deuce]

Poked the Bear again did you: The point is Kenny, I have examined both sides of the coin as you suggested, long before I typed a single letter on the keyboard here. You have not. You are suggesting that I do what you should have already done. That is why, as a friend, I am trying to get not only you but the forum readership to understand that the scenario being espoused is not only flawed, it has been misrepresented to you. You were correct when you said something does not 'jive'. Which is why I agreed with that assessment. And it is now obvious you are avoiding the obvious by playing the victim card.

As for a Creedmoor 150, the 150 Year Anniversary IS a one time event in 2024 and trying to obfuscate beyond that and deflect attention from that doesn't work. Simple math 2024 - 1874 = 150.

No, I am not and was not referring to your Creedmoor match at your range. Dragging that into the conversation the way you did is grandstanding. Moreover, to set the record straight, 2023 was the first time I was invited to your ranch to shoot and I wrote and thanked you for the 2024 invitation and said if possible I would attend.

The subject here is Byers. Why do you deflect attention away from that? Is it because you just don't want any responsibility for correcting the problem or is it you do not want to know the truth, or both?

And for the record, Ben Avery is not my match, it is the competitors event, it is first subject to Ben Avery for range availability dates and then to AZWINS for assigning use of those ranges for those dates. The dates for the 2024 AZWINS Events (plural) were established at a meeting at Ben Avery during the 2023 shoot. The BPCR Target Event is part of the larger AZWINS program. A small group of 4 "VOLUNTEERS" including myself, at the request of AZWINS, assist them in producing the BPCR Target event solely for the enjoyment of the shooters. You know we build and replace BPCR damaged uprights at Ben Avery Range because you and Jimbo helped build some that we replaced in 2023, also as VOLUNTEEERS. We do that every year. It is the responsibility of the group damaging the uprights to either repair if possible or replace, not just walk off and leave the problem for someone else to deal with.

I will go out on a limb this far. If you and the shooters want Byers BPCR Target Matches to continue, the door is open. But YOU the shooters have to walk through that door. Are you going to do it? It serves no purpose to whine and cry on line.

[JonnyV]

Losing access to the Byers range might only be a symptom of the problem.

[desert deuce]

Johnny, we cannot change what has happened. We do have an opportunity to positively change the future. However, wallowing in and falling victim to the past will not generate the "can do" necessary for positive change.

The issue is simple. If the competitors collectively coalesce around the objective of continuing the BPTR Long Range Matches it will happen. If they don't, it won't happen.

[semtav]

DD
Since you have already talked A by the hints you have given, is it as simple as:

1. A leave it like you found it policy that went awry

2. A clash of strong wills that will require a new match director to continue.

3. A much more complicated.picure

4. Go away, you are just making it worse.

Feel free to use numerical code if an outright explanation is not possible due to privileged info.

[JonnyV]

DD I agree with most of what you put down there, my point is that long range BP shooting is an easy target for getting the boot because we don't have big numbers of participants (outside of the Q), and the ones we do have are aging out and leaving the range without new people coming in. Throw in a couple guys (in the right spots) who've decided that they don't want anything to do with BP anymore, and this is the result. Have to figure out a way to either grow the sport, or watch it die. There is no middle ground.

[marlinman93]

At my local club we have a 1000 yd. range, and it is used by both hi power shooters and BPCR shooters. The hi power shooters and their director are always trying to get rid of the BPCR shooters, and it's been obvious for years that the director thinks any club funds spent to make things better for BPCR shooters are wasted.
It's been a constant battle to exist, and not one easily won since hi power shooters outnumber BPCR shooters probably 4 to 1 or more! We are always trying to get more people involved in shooting long range BP, but just don't seem to have many who want to try it.
Almost all our shooting is really BPTR since it's done on targets, not gongs, but the club did finally spring for a steel full sized buffalo, and a system to stand it up for BP shooting, and lay it down when the hi power shooters use the range so they don't shoot the buffalo full of divots. That was a major battle won, but a constant source of negative comments from some hi power shooters about it not being used as much as they think it should.
It takes a lot of work just to maintain what we have once monies are spent, and can't ever let down or we'll lose what little we have.

[desert deuce]

Marlin Man, tell us about your range in Oregon. Is there a backstop behind the targets, how many firing points does it have, does it have pits and mechanical target holders, does it have firing points at 300, 500, 600, 800, 900 & 1000 yards, do you provide "GOOD" targets, water at the range, camping at the range, exactly where is it located, website, ETC ?

[Kenny Wasserburger]

All we can do is try to open a dialogue with the 1000 yard range coordinator and see about the possibilities of continuing the matches at Byers.

It’s possibly in the works.

Kenny Wasserburger

I will keep everyone updated on that.

[marlinman93]

Marlin Man, tell us about your range in Oregon. Is there a backstop behind the targets, how many firing points does it have, does it have pits and mechanical target holders, does it have firing points at 300, 500, 600, 800, 900 & 1000 yards, do you provide "GOOD" targets, water at the range, camping at the range, exactly where is it located, website, ETC ?

My home range is Douglas Ridge Rifle Club. It has 12 targets that have the whole ridge behind them as a backstop, so no issues with high shots. Target holders are raised/lowered from pits so those working them can do so safely during a match without halting the shooting.
We have shooting positions at all the distances you mentioned, but shooters have to move to each position since target location is fixed. No benches at any of these locations so shooting is prone, or off your own cross sticks, etc. Biggest issue is practice days which are once a week, and the way the range is setup it requires all ranges downrange to be closed on Long Range Days.
Here's the web site with aerial view of the whole club layout. We have water, but not water for individual camper hookups. Also club house with kitchen and restrooms, plus porta potties at ranges. I'm not sure if the club has camping setup still, but for long range matches that could prove tough to do as any camping areas would be downrange from shooting positions. But there is a public park just a couple miles to the West.
We're located at Boring, Oregon.
https://www.douglasridge.org/index.php

[bpcr shooter]

Marlin Man, tell us about your range in Oregon. Is there a backstop behind the targets, how many firing points does it have, does it have pits and mechanical target holders, does it have firing points at 300, 500, 600, 800, 900 & 1000 yards, do you provide "GOOD" targets, water at the range, camping at the range, exactly where is it located, website, ETC ?

DD,

We at Winnequah Gun Club, in Lodi, Wi provide that. In fact we provide that and more if need be. If you would like to see for yourself, https://winnequahgunclub.org/about/ranges/ There is more than enough camping area with power.


Matt

[Kenny Wasserburger]

So far it has been an interesting day.

The 1000 yard range coordinator at Byers isn’t against us holding BPTR matches at Byers. Unfortunately the information that was relayed to us on that has proven to be false.Frame damage was a deciding factor, any match director at CRC is responsible to report this and secure repairs or rebuild the frames. This didn’t happen this year, a catastrophic failure of a frame after our match, was a mitigating factor in that decision. We are in process of attempting to open a dialogue to secure the necessary requirements for us shooters as a group effort to hold a Creedmoor event at Byers this coming year. Some of us refuse to let this venue die, an ugly death. I myself see it that I owe an apology to the CRC high power range coordinator an apology I was operating on false information, and should have dug further into this. As a human being it’s a failing to lash out when you think the information you had was from a honest reliable source, proves otherwise.

I will no longer point any further fingers, I will simply try to see if some of us can host a match at CRC for Creedmoor. One assistant match Director and brother BPTR Past National Champion plus a member of CRC has offered to help in this venture.

Please stay tuned as this is going to be an ongoing process, and will require many of our brother competitors to pitch in and lend us a helping hand at a time in the near future. This once again begs the question of a governing body to hold and oversee such events to make a BPTR national championship.

Kenny Wasserburger

[Kenny Wasserburger]

As I had said, I would keep folks updated.

Jimbo has been in phone contact with the east range manager and the president of the CRC.
And we needed a member of the club as a point contact person to meet with them. Our long time friend Michael Jackson will meet with the CRC executives as a representative of the BPTR shooters. Once we understand what is expected of us, such as labor or materials to repair replace and rebuild then we can look at a date to hold our matches at CRC.

Stay tuned.

Kenny Wasserburger