Can I make 4F from 2F . . .

[JonMartin]

. . . . . without blowing my fool head off?

I have this tendancy to get a real uneasy feeling in the pit of my stomach when I am about to do something really stupid. (It has saved my hide more than once.) I have that feeling right now - not sure if it is because I'm about to embark on stupidity or if the left over bean burrito I had for breakfast is acting up . . .

Anyway, I need some fine powder - about 1/4 cup - for a .22 cap and ball revolver. A fellow told me I could put some 2F in a sock - teaspoon or so at a time - and carefully grind it with a mallet on the concrete floor. I thought to go so far as using a mortar and pestle for the grinding but I'm not too keen on trying anything until I get some good advice - or this uneasy feeling goes away . . .

Suffice to say, I've got a really healthy respect for BP.

Any comments?

Thanks.

[Ken Hartlein]

I wouldn't do it on a double dog dare. Surely you can just borrow a cup from a muzzleloader that has a flinter. Or, maybe you could use a VERY fine screen and filter out the fine dust like particles in your 2Fg. Buying a can of 4Fg would be a lot cheaper than a trip to the emergency ward!!

[Marathonman]

3F would probably work as well and is commonly available.

[Smokin]

JonMartin,

You know, you could probably do this without blowing your head off, but is it worth the gamble? You can find a can of 4F for a relatively small investment, particularly when compared to the cost of a coffin or long term care for the limbless and/or faceless. Be careful, Smokin

[JonMartin]

Yep - There was a reason for the creepy-crawly feeling in my gut - and it wasn't the stale burrito either. I would hate for my last moment on earth to be spent whacking a smelly old sock - containing black powder - with a hammer and getting blown half-ways across the garage engulfed in an enormous fireball. Can anyone say 'Darwin Award Recipient'?

And how's about showin' up at the Pearly Gates all charred and blown to shreds? I sure wouldn't want to have to try and explain that little folly to Ol' St. Pete. He'd probably cuff me and turn me straight away.

I wouldn't have even asked except the suggestion was made by a local fellow whom I consider to be very knowledgeable with black powder. (I think it may be time to locate a new local expert.)

Like I mentioned - I DO have a healthy respect for this stuff - and I don't mind how my face looks either. Reminds me of a local (loco) fellow a few years back that was bent on demonstrating how dangerous BP can be. With an audience of doubting spectators, this guy leans over and flames a healthy pile of BP with his lighter. FWOOSH! I haven't seen him for about 10 years but I'd bet good money he still bears the scars on his face and arms. I guess you could say he made his point. . .

I am not able to purchase, beg or borrow even 3F locally let alone 4F. I purchased some 2F a while back via mail order and that is all I have. To say I live miles from nowhere is a gross exageration - I'm probably within 100 yards of the 'nowhere epicenter'! The only thing I have found locally is Pyrodex P - the nasty, most undesireable, synthetic black powder substitute (of approximately 3F granulation) that is all but guaranteed to make your hair fall out, your arches collapse and your dog run away - not to mention having the inherent accuracy of shooting spitballs out of a bent straw. Oh well, guess it will have to do.

Thanks for the good advice - you may have saved me from a horrific episode.

So, what is the easiest way to clean up . . . (hasp) . . . Pyrodex?

Best regards,

[Stan Koslow]

I do it. Even grind 4 f finer for one rifle pan. Use stone & mortar or wood and just a thimble full at a time. Don't strike just grind. Watch for the dust... If you don't feel safe, don't do it.

[Dead Eye Dick]

Looks like I may venture back into this shootin thing. I own a .50cal TC Hawken that I killed an elk with years and years ago. Have not shot more than July 4 "blanks" in a long while. Have some inheritance money headed my way and think a good investment would be one of these Shiloh Sharps smoke poles.
Want to hear about:
1. A basic reloading set up. I own one cf smokeless tool that has never shot a factory load, but I did all my loading with friends and never bought a press, scale, measure. Just the die and components.
2. 45-70 or 45-110. I'd like to find someone that would let me shoot a few rounds to get a feel. I used to own a .338 WinMag - the only cf rifle I have ever owned and sold. Fella begged me for it. In my .50 cal TC Hawken I hunted with a 370 gr maxi with about 120 gn of 2f. Sure poleaxed that elk.
3. Probably do mostly target shooting. U seen the deer here in central Texas? Sling shot or 22 is almost to much "gun". YA but I've also seen the picture in this Shilo site of the guy holding the turkey and I'm sure it wasn't road kill - can't remember the size bullet he shot. Maybe it was charging him??
4. Can't get a fix on how long I'll have to wait for the folks in Big Timber to build me a gun . I've asked via the web, but guess I'll have to just pick up the phone Monday mornin. BUT from all I hear it is worth the wait. Or maybe I should just be prepared to place the order Monday - longest journey starts with the first step.....

[Rich Siegel]

Like Stan, I've done this without a problem. Just use a glass or porclain mortar and pistol. Do a little at a time, maybe a 38 special case full. Black powder is not as easy to ignite as many rumors state.

[wolfy]

I've used a glass "shot glass" and a round ended wooden spoon to do a small amount at a time. Works great. Don't pound on it, but just rock the spoon end around and around in the bottom of the glass.

[VAshooter]

The big trouble with crushing one grade of black powder to make it finer is that black powder has a glaze applied which helps prevent water absorbsion. When you crush it you break the glaze and it becomes very water sensitive. If you use it right away on a dry day you would probably be OK but if the humidity was high you might end up with a gummy mess.

[Canoe112]

Jon,

You said, "A fellow told me I could put some 2F in a sock - teaspoon or so at a time - and carefully grind it with a mallet on the concrete floor."

If it was me I'd give that fellow 1 lb. of 2F and $20. Then put on your safety goggles and watch his technique.

Hal

[JonMartin]

Greetings, All - Thanks for the replies. I acquired a non-static mortar & pestle and very, very carefully ground less than 1/4 teaspoon of powder at a time. I wore safety glasses, and long leather gloves for added protection - and kept the bowl of the mortar pointed away from my body. I established 1/4 teaspoon as the maximum grind amount by first witnessing the ignition of 1/2 teaspoon of powder out in the driveway and deciding I didn't want a flash of that magnitude going off within 30" of my face. Like Stan said - 'if you don't feel safe, don't do it.' Good advice.

I think the biggest risk is the dust. A mortar&pestle setup will best contain the dust - using a slow grind. This business of putting powder in a sock - well, let's just say . . . 'yikes'. A sock is porous - powder will 'ooze' out of the sock. And how do you get the powder out of a sock without shaking it - shaking up the dust and possibly getting a little static charge in the process . . . double 'yikes'. And how do you 'grind' powder in a sock? And what about a potential spark by contacting the concrete with the mallet? I think Canoe112 has the right idea - except I would substitute a welder's mask for the safety glasses to protect from the brilliant flash . . . The would-be sock masher would have second thoughts as I started backing away - about 100 feet.

Anyway, I ground a very small batch as I will only use a very small amount at a time. This little revolver takes a .3 cc charge per chamber - imagine using 1/2 of a .22 LR case as a dipper. I don't need a lot of powder - a tablespoon would last for a day of shooting.

This little gun was a hoot to shoot and was surprisingly accurate at a short distance but sneezing a bean from my nose would probably be about as lethal downrage! Good fun nonetheless. It went bang, there was smoke and fire, I was happy.

Thanks again for all the advice. If I had my druthers, I would just as soon go out and buy 4F ready-made, but for my purposes, I got by just fine. Besides, a pound of 4F would last me ten lifetimes.

Best regards,