Loaded Rounds thru Resizing Die

Jim Stewart · Post by **Jim Stewart** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:21 am

There are several references to running fully loaded cartridges back through the resizing die.

I'd appreciate some details of how you do this and the depth into the resizer you run the loaded cartridges.

powderburner · Post by **powderburner** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:13 pm

mostly I dont mess with the die ,I just remove the decapping pin and go for it

leadflinger · Post by **leadflinger** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:18 pm

I have tried removing the decapping pin and run the loaded round through the sizing die,but when I did the bullet was lose in the case to the point that I could pull the bullet out with my fingers. Do you adjust the die to only parcially size?

Smokin · Post by **Smokin** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:51 pm

leadflinger,

I, too, am more than somewhat stymied by those who advocate running loaded rounds through a sizing die. To my mind, it serves no useful purpose. In the sizing process, brass is reduced in diameter a bunch and with the expanding procedure it is increased in diameter a bit. The looseness of the bullet that you are experiencing is the re-sizing of the bullet in the case by several thousandths of an inch. It naturally will be loose in the case because of the difference in elasticity between brass and lead. Brass will rebound somewhat from the working it receives in the sizing process; lead won't.

If the brass is properly sized when that process is employed, and the bullets are of proper dimension for the groove diameter of the bore, and the neck thickness of brass is correct for the chamber size vis-a-vis bullet diameter, this resizing business should be completely unnecessary, and is likely counter-productive. Good luck, Smokin

Ken Hartlein · Post by **Ken Hartlein** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:06 pm

I don't size my brass at all, that is the ones I use in Silhouette competition, I only shoot fireformed brass. I have also heard of folks doing what you are talking about but I don't know why they do it. If I were going to do anything like that I would get a Lyman taper crimp die.

Bonanza Driver · Post by **Bonanza Driver** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:26 pm

Jim:

I am one of the fellows who found an advantage in FL re-sizing loaded rounds, so let me take a crack at an explanation. Just as with almost everything else, there are a number of reasons folks do the things they do. Here are mine.

In loading for my new Shiloh ‘Quigley’, chambered for 45-110, I found that my cartridges would not chamber completely, typically refusing to slide in the last ½“or so. I found the problem to be that the brass cartridge casing was ever so slightly bulged, due to the .6 (that’s right .600) powder compression needed to fit 108.5 grains of Goex 1f into the Norma case without the advantage of a drop tube. I solved this problem by lubing the completed cartridge, removing the decapping stem and FL sizing a second time. The net result was a cartridge that chambered without problem and resulted in MOA groups (if I do my part).

This technique works well for me but in looking over some of the other posts, I can see where it might not work for others – due to a number of variables.

First, I use Norma brass. I don’t have any experience with other manufacturers but I have heard other members using other brass complain of case wall (neck) thickness problems.

I cast a Lyman 457132 Postell from WW (I know, I know – ww are not supposed to work, but they sure seem to for me). Actually, I had planned to use 30-1 but could not find any and was anxious to shoot the new rifle, so I just used what I had (which is what I expect the old-timers did as well). Recently, I’ve read that WW typically work out to be about the same hardness as 25-1, so I’m not in a panic to find 30-1, anymore.

I size to .458 & lube with SPG. I know that a lot of folks with a lot more experience than me do not use a sizer and pan lube, instead. I just like knowing that my bullets are no larger than .458.

I guess I just got lucky, because when I re-size the loaded (& lubed) round, I have no problems. I don’t experience any excessive force as one would expect if I were swaging the bullet down a couple of thousandths and the bullets still measure .458 afterwards. The bullets are not loose in the case, either, although I suspect that those folks that finger-seat their bullets wouldn’t consider it a particular problem even if they were!

Now, I spoke with rdnck and he gave me the following sound advice “If you are shooting MOA, don’t change a thing!” Having said that, Kenny has given me some tips on a drop tube, so I’m going to give it a try and see if can get to the point where I only have to compress .400 like he does. If so, maybe my brass won’t bulge and I can save my cartridges the second pass through the FL size die. But if accuracy drops off, I’ll be back to double-sizing in a heartbeat!

Hope this helps,
Steve

Ken Hartlein · Post by **Ken Hartlein** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:35 pm

Sounds like a good explanation to me. If it shoots MOA why change it??

If memory serves me, according to Lyman the WW are the same as 30:1 anyway.

Ron Williams · Post by **Ron Williams** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:55 pm

Jim, I use a two diameter neck expander so the neck is bigger at the mouth of the case and since I choose to not crimp my shells I run them into the sizer die by hand not mounted in my press, just enough to remove the bell on the mouth. For you folks casting with wheelweights, yes they do drop from the mould about the same hardness as 30-1 but over the period of 1-2 weeks it hardens considerably you can tell the difference each day by dragging a fingernail across it.

Bonanza Driver · Post by **Bonanza Driver** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:15 pm

Ron:

Not having used 30-1, I can't say but are you suggesting that wheelweights harden more than 30-1 over time? Why is that?

All the Best,
Steve

Ron Williams · Post by **Ron Williams** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:35 pm

Steve,
I think it has something to do with the antimony in ww metal. The next time you cast with wheelweights try scratching the bullet with your fingernail, on day 1 it will mark easily while on each day after it will harden and be tougher to mark.

Bonanza Driver · Post by **Bonanza Driver** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:59 pm

Ron:

I bet you’re right.

I just found a very informative post by Michael Rix that indicates that while lead/tin alloys (40-1, 30-1, 20-1, etc.) soften with age, wheel weights start off at a hardness similar to 40-1 and then harden significantly over approximately 2 weeks. I have no idea why that is, but your suggestion regarding antimony sounds plausible to me.

As long as I’m getting educated here, maybe I could get some help on another matter.

One of the things that I have not been able to figure out is what real difference lead hardness actually makes (within reason). Lyman recommends using gas checks in cast bullet applications where muzzle velocity exceeds about 1,500 fps to avoid leading due to vaporization of the bullet base by the (hot) powder loads. I’ve not put my 45-110 on a chrono, yet but I’d be real surprised if the Lyman 457132 left the barrel at more than 1,400 fps – tops. I don’t notice any leading during cleaning after shooting 40-60 rounds.

I’ve heard of the “bump up” explanation but I’m not sure why this would apply to a 540 grain projectile propelled by 107 grains of Goex 1f but not to Elmer Keith’s favorite 240 grain projectile propelled by 22 grains of 2400. I’m not saying that there is no difference, here – just that I don’t see what it would be.

All the Best,
Steve

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:06 pm

The Shooters that I know who run their loaded cases thru a FL sizing die do so to apply a slight taper crimp to the case.

Lead Pot · Post by **Lead Pot** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:06 pm

Bonanza.

I never resized a loaded round.Reading this makes me wonder,when you run that round back through the die dont you also swage the bullet down with the case?
If I bulge a case I just pull the bullet and throw it back in the lead pot,dump the powder but Pull the pin out of the die so I dont knock out the primer.
I guess I will have to check this out when I get back from the range in the morning to see what it does to the bullet.

Kurt

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:08 pm

By utilizing a FL sizing die, the Shooter can apply a taper crimp to the case.

bulldog · Post by **bulldog** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:39 pm

As I finish loading each cartridge I try the loaded round in the chamber to make sure it has a perfect fit. I want no surprises at the firing line. I only use fireformed brass and I load to tight tolerances. If the cartridge 'catches' or won't chamber with thumb pressure I gently 'size' the loaded round a bit and try it in th chamber again. I think this both straightens the lead should it be at a slight inperceivable out of line, plus it tightens the brass and rounds it slightly around the case mouth if it's not a perfect round.
I'm thinking that a gun that has a mechanical advantage like a highwall might basically do about the same thing if you have to put any presure when chambering. Does this make sense?

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