Chamber inserts for 1863 'paper' Sharps Rifles
I recently acquired a Farmingdale Shiloh 1863 Military in .50 calibre.
I'm loading it with a pan lubed (BPC) 450 gr. bullet (Lee), breech seated with a short starter backed by a non-combustible paper cartridge (65 grains by volume Cartridge grade powder).
If I wipe the bore between rounds, the rifle produce three shot groups of 1 1/4" at 100 yds from the bench. It becomes necessary to pull the breechblock after 5-6 rounds to clean the face.
Pedersoli offers brass chamber 'cartridges' in .45 and .54, but not .50. I spoke to Buffalo Arms about this today and they get a couple of requests a month about these.
Since the '63 is back in production by Shiloh and the 'spaghetti' Sharps are available everywhere, there is a niche market here.
Let Buffalo Arms know that you are interested and it will give them incentive to market inserts in all calibres.
I know that users of Smith and Maynard carbines muzzleload with round ball, leaving the case in place. I presume that they are using an undersize ball with a lubed patch to prevent fouling and bore leading.
I see no reason why this should not work with a Sharps '63.
Todd
Chamber Inserts For 1863 'Paper' Sharps Rifles
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Todd Birch
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Chamber Inserts For 1863 'Paper' Sharps Rifles
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"
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gmartin
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To Todd, concerning cartridge inserts for 63'
Todd,
Great shooting you speak of. My Farmingdale 63' is a carbine and I do not get 1.25 " groups at 100 yards. I can't help but wonder if your rifle a 3 or 1 bander. Did you use the sights it came with? I used to load my carbine as you with non-combustible ctgs., but now use combustible and will never go back. Also am working on flat cartridges with bullet inserted. Not shot any yet. Your .50 cal. may have a better balliistic coeficient than the current 400 grn. bullet I use in my . 54, though I may be be splitting hairs. As well, plan to try different bullets. The Brass cartridge inserts don't interest me due to the non traditional aspect, but I hope you get what you desire. Shooting those 63's are nothing but fun. Be happy with those groups.
Best to you, Gregg
Great shooting you speak of. My Farmingdale 63' is a carbine and I do not get 1.25 " groups at 100 yards. I can't help but wonder if your rifle a 3 or 1 bander. Did you use the sights it came with? I used to load my carbine as you with non-combustible ctgs., but now use combustible and will never go back. Also am working on flat cartridges with bullet inserted. Not shot any yet. Your .50 cal. may have a better balliistic coeficient than the current 400 grn. bullet I use in my . 54, though I may be be splitting hairs. As well, plan to try different bullets. The Brass cartridge inserts don't interest me due to the non traditional aspect, but I hope you get what you desire. Shooting those 63's are nothing but fun. Be happy with those groups.
Best to you, Gregg
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Todd Birch
- Posts: 2133
- Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:01 pm
- Location: Somewhere in the Cariboo ....
Gregg
Thanks for the feedback.
My Farmingdale '63 is the 30" three bander. Yes, I am using the 'as issue' sights. A previous owner had epoxied(!) a tang site and a front sight base.
These came off real quick. The rifle came with a sweet trigger.
The results I'm getting exceeded my highest expectations for the rifle. What I wanted was something I could knock down a deer with; "minute of Bambi" at 50-75 yards. 1 1/4" inch groups at 100 yds from a clean barrel was a pleasant surprise. The trick will be to do it on demand.
Next challenge will be at 200 yards.
I have found a variance depending upon how much powder I lose when the base of the cartridge is sheared off. Putting some rounds across a chrono would tell the tale.
The idea of a flat base short of the cutting edge sounds like the way to go.
I may experiment with nitrated paper if it means less bore and breechblock fouling.
The idea of using chamber inserts is to eliminate as many variables as possible. Not historically correct and could be described as trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear instead of enjoying the rifle for what it is.
SPG lube. micro dies, electronic powder measuring, CNC machining and all the other things rifle cranks do and use sure wasn't done by hide hunters, but the latter target riflemen sure did. Whatever technology they had, they used.
The real surprise was the bullet. I'm using a $30 Cdn (that's about $1.98 US give or take a few cents...) Lee mould, pan lubing the unsized bullets as cast.
I don't knock results.
Regards, Todd
Thanks for the feedback.
My Farmingdale '63 is the 30" three bander. Yes, I am using the 'as issue' sights. A previous owner had epoxied(!) a tang site and a front sight base.
These came off real quick. The rifle came with a sweet trigger.
The results I'm getting exceeded my highest expectations for the rifle. What I wanted was something I could knock down a deer with; "minute of Bambi" at 50-75 yards. 1 1/4" inch groups at 100 yds from a clean barrel was a pleasant surprise. The trick will be to do it on demand.
Next challenge will be at 200 yards.
I have found a variance depending upon how much powder I lose when the base of the cartridge is sheared off. Putting some rounds across a chrono would tell the tale.
The idea of a flat base short of the cutting edge sounds like the way to go.
I may experiment with nitrated paper if it means less bore and breechblock fouling.
The idea of using chamber inserts is to eliminate as many variables as possible. Not historically correct and could be described as trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear instead of enjoying the rifle for what it is.
SPG lube. micro dies, electronic powder measuring, CNC machining and all the other things rifle cranks do and use sure wasn't done by hide hunters, but the latter target riflemen sure did. Whatever technology they had, they used.
The real surprise was the bullet. I'm using a $30 Cdn (that's about $1.98 US give or take a few cents...) Lee mould, pan lubing the unsized bullets as cast.
I don't knock results.
Regards, Todd
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"
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gmartin
- Posts: 361
- Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:55 pm
- Location: Boise Id
Brass cartridge inserts for 1863 rifles
Todd,
I was an airborne infantryman in Fairbanks, Ak., Ft. Wainwright. We trained often with the Third Princess Pats.' during "Jack Frost" exercises at Ft. Greeley. Later I jumped fires in Yukon Territory as an Ak. smokejumper. I love the north but had to leave for an injury at work in 1985. Saw you are a sapper.
Thanks for your reply back. A tang sight epoxied is sacrilitious (sp.) You will find less fouling with a paper cartridge of salt peter soaked heavy tissue type paper. Just stir s.p. in a quart jar until it will absorb no more and this will make a cartridge that burns. Excess from construction can be laeked back into the jar. Soak the pre cut strips you use in a cookie tray and let them dry in the sun or near the register. I'm tying a .54 blow tube and it's funky but seems to work. Paper is military toilet paper we used to get with our C-Rations, exactly 4 by 4 " as is. Yes I'm anxious to try the flat ctgs. with bullet inserted. Point well taken concerning what is or is not "traditional". My 200 yd. sight is unfortunately too small to sight a target through, odd because all others on the rifle are fine. It is not a "V" shape and I'm afraid to mess with it. I took my little carbine bear hunting in Ak. and my old Shilo supplied 400 grn. bullet, a true wad cutter, did kill two well. YOU definatly have minute of bambi groups and I do not think your hunting groups will be affected much by not bore cleaning after each shot.
"Thats all I have to say about that" (Forest Gump)
Good shooting, Gregg
I was an airborne infantryman in Fairbanks, Ak., Ft. Wainwright. We trained often with the Third Princess Pats.' during "Jack Frost" exercises at Ft. Greeley. Later I jumped fires in Yukon Territory as an Ak. smokejumper. I love the north but had to leave for an injury at work in 1985. Saw you are a sapper.
Thanks for your reply back. A tang sight epoxied is sacrilitious (sp.) You will find less fouling with a paper cartridge of salt peter soaked heavy tissue type paper. Just stir s.p. in a quart jar until it will absorb no more and this will make a cartridge that burns. Excess from construction can be laeked back into the jar. Soak the pre cut strips you use in a cookie tray and let them dry in the sun or near the register. I'm tying a .54 blow tube and it's funky but seems to work. Paper is military toilet paper we used to get with our C-Rations, exactly 4 by 4 " as is. Yes I'm anxious to try the flat ctgs. with bullet inserted. Point well taken concerning what is or is not "traditional". My 200 yd. sight is unfortunately too small to sight a target through, odd because all others on the rifle are fine. It is not a "V" shape and I'm afraid to mess with it. I took my little carbine bear hunting in Ak. and my old Shilo supplied 400 grn. bullet, a true wad cutter, did kill two well. YOU definatly have minute of bambi groups and I do not think your hunting groups will be affected much by not bore cleaning after each shot.
"Thats all I have to say about that" (Forest Gump)
Good shooting, Gregg