Bench shooting the 50-90

[Buckskinner]

This is the first time for some serious bench work with the Big 50. I have been shooting a few different loads to get bullets together that I wanted to test.
I had three different bullet weights and types loaded all are paperpatched. The first is a pure lead Muzzleloader bullet I have used working with a Knight in-line it weights 450gr is straight no taper. No. 2 bullet is a 500gr. pure lead from Montana Precision Swaged traditional nose tapered. No.3 is from my Steve Brooks adjustable mould at full length 685gr. nose pour cast of 1:20 Lead Tin.
These bullets were loaded in once fired Bell brass primed with CCI BR primers. The 450 was loaded with 110gr. of GOEX 2fg compressed .125" a milkcarton wad over powder followed by .125" of SPG and another milkcarton wad under bullet. Going back a step to the brass, it is full length resized and expanded to give about .002 neck tension. The dia. of all bullets is .500 patched up using 100% cotton .0025 thick. The Montana bullet came dry patched, I removed the paper and patched them the same as the others for consistant process. The no 2 bullet was loaded with the same procedure except the powder charge was reduced to 100gr. The No. 3 bullet was loaded on 100gr. and compressed .145" to get more bullet in the case.
Everything was fired at 100yds. I use a real estate sign with a piece of ply wood bolted on to give a idea of what I was shooting at. The target I used was a centerfire target of the type one used for sighting a Scoped rifle, bad mistake! I don't know what the hell I was thinking of, must have been excitement!!
I clocked all loads with a Oehler 35p chronograph the 450gr were at 1499, 500gr. at 1360 and the 685gr. at 1199.
The 450gr grouped high and right nearly off the target, 2.5"x3.0" nearly round group, okay for first time out, my goal is 1'' @ 100yd. The 500gr was nearly at the the same place a little lower. The 685gr. Never touched the paper!! Over the top as near as I know.
for the guys wanting to know about recoil of the 50-90. The 450gr. laod is managable probably could be shot in 500 yd. competition, same with the 500gr.
The 685 went like this, Rifle weights approx. 11 1/4lbs with Buckhorn factory sights straight grip, firing round No. 1 the forearm left the sand bags about 6" and the torque nearly spun the rifle from my grip! Damn I was ready for the next 4 couldn't see the target for the smoke as far as I know those 685s are still clipping the tops of the sage brush in southern Idaho desert!
What a hell of a day. My daughteer was along with me she wanted to shoot the Buffalo gun and did! after she quit laughting. She shot the 450gr. load.
Just a start will keep you posted
Redneck I would sure like some of your 1fg Load info if you don't mind!
Thanks all
Gary

[powderburner]

I found a few of your 650 in the front yard .I know they were yours cause they were facing the wrong way to be mine.In my 50 I finally got around to 1F and have been using the same wt as 2F with all the other things the same still pushes but is a slower push

[Buckskinner]

Dean

Turn them around and head em home will you those big ones are expensive

I was low on powder so I though I would buy a can of 1Fg and our only store in Boise has stopped stocking Black powder To much hassel with regs. and storage requirements. This mom and pop store has been the only source of Black for 20 years. I guess I will have to start ordering the stuff, I hate doing that would like to support my local shops when I can.

Seems like someone is always tightening the screws on the shooter no matter what type

Gary

[powderburner]

its a good thing that the distribuators sell it or I wouldnt have any none in reno none in slc and none in twin and now none in boise what is the world coming to

[Buckskinner]

Dean

Where are you ordering your powder from? Our local blackpowder club sells to members. I think I will become a member since the bpc shooters shoot on there range, makes some monery for the club also.
Gary

[RMulhern]

Buckskinner

IMO....one shouldn't mess with the .50/90 unless it's in at least a 14# weight. Recoil doesn't bother me much but for guys built with "light frames"...it can whup ya up a bit. And....ya got to "hold on to" the rifle like it's a robber making away with your paycheck!

For a hunting rifle....the weight of your rifle is OK because ya ain't gonna be shootin it much anyway but for fun shooting...off cross-sticks or otherwise.....best "go by you some Tylenol"!

[Buckskinner]

Sharpsman

I respect your comment about messing with a 50-90 and you're right about the torque, that was my suprise!
The Shiloh is my first experience with a straight stock large rifle and I believe that is why the torque was so noticeable, how ever the Shiloh is actually the heaviest of the big bore rifles I shoot. I do a lot of test work with .378, .460 Wby Mags, .50 cal, muzzleloaders and am curently starting to work with a .58.
Do you shoot a 50-90 if you do what type of rifle do you have? I am also interested in your loads if you don't mind.
Thanks
Gary

[RMulhern]

Buckskinner

I have two .50/90's; one a C. Sharps that's back for a new barrel fit and a "home-brew" model that has a Badger barrel on a Pedersoli action. The barrel on the Peder is OK and up to snuff on the specs as far as bore/groove diameter. The other....a little off!

Loads? I've been shooting some G2F but by any means....these rifles don't care for it! The Rdnck gave me a little 1F to try but I haven't had time to shoot any test with it! Bullet? I don't like the lighter stuff; would rather stay with at least a 650 gr. +! I have a few 690 grainers but haven't tried these yet as I stated earlier; too busy flying!

The 690's seem to be bore-diameter in my Badger barrel on the Peder action; they'll drop down into the muzzle with only about 0.350" of the back half sticking out which is at groove diameter! Maybe this is the secret....if any! If I had some really good 690's I'd like to try 'em but the ones this fellow sent look like "culls" as there are holes in the bases! Don't think they would prove much to me!

I guess you should know that one of the "criteria" for owning/shooting a .50/90 is......first thing each morning is say.....three Hail Mary's and three Our Father's before arising!! It's the penance for being stupid enough to own one!!

[buffalocannon]

Dear Buckskinner

I assume your are using straight black and not duplex or some other foul brew. You might try this. It works for me. Get off of that bench and sit down in front of the bench on the ground and shoot off of sticks. Put a thick cotton or some such rag between your smokepole and the leather on the sticks. Engineers amongst us can say it where I can't but the queer movement of these things when they go off disallows one to shoot decent groups or bullseye groups unless you allow for their strange recoil. Shooting off of sandbags does not allow for such. I can shoot my big smokeless rifles, including a balls-to-the-wall, turn-out-the-lights-Irene .348 WCF all day off of sandbags with great group results, but can only do so with my black powder Sharps off of sticks, which, once you get used to them, are as steady as sandbags on the bench anyway. Even the leather of the sticks will "grab" the smokepole and throw off the shot. A cloth or piece of felt or your Granny's doily lets the rifle slide and do the thing it is supposed to do in a natural way. By the way, I didn't arrive at this on my own. A fellow smokepolian finally took pity on me one day and clued me in.

[powderburner]

we (a friend and I ) just got a case and split it from coonies and last summer I was at quigley and went to miles city and got a couple cases will be running low by the Q again also usted to get it in ronan mt on the waythrough but they quit selling it as well
Been trying to get to the black creek range now that it is opened back up just havent made it yet.

[N2]

Buckskinner - If you look down the bore of your Shiloh I believe you'll find a left hand 1-22" twist which may explain why you're feeling the torque as much as you do. The fast twist generates a lot of torque and the left hand twist pushes the stock into the lower part of your hand. I never appreciated a pistol grip and stock checkering as much as I do with my 50-90 Shiloh.

I have moulds casting bullets ranging from 480 grains to 650 with three moulds casting the latter weight. Using 2002 Goex Ffg I shoot the 650 Saeco FN (available from Buffalo Arms) over 94.0 grains of powder at 1270 fps. The Brooks 650 Creedmoor over the same lot of powder requires 95.0 grains of powder for 1272 fps. I recently purchased a Paul Jones Creedmoor weighing 652 grains when cast from 20:1. My 2003 lot of Goex Ffg requires 101.0 grains to achieve the same compression as the 95 grain 2002 lot with the Paul Jones bullet. Average velocity is 1279 fps with an ES of 14 fps for 5 shots. I use Sidra Bagwell's Black Magic lube and have no complaints with it.

The 50-90 can be quite accurate, but it takes a little getting used to. While not purchased for silhouette I've used mine (it weighs just under 12 pounds) in a few matches. On separate occasions the rifle has run pigs and turkeys with the Brooks bullet and it's high ram count is 8. Offhand shooting isn't a lot of fun, but you really need to see what that load can do to a chicken silhouette to appreciate it. Another pound or two of weight would have made this a more practical purchase, I bought it for shooting Creedmoor matches, but it wouldn't have been any more fun than it already is. - Nick

[Buckskinner]

To all
Sorry about the delay in response. I have a project I am working on and it is keeping me busy. I am in the process of restoring a Win.94 take-down, have been taking it apart to send the receiver and some other parts to Doug Turmbull for Bone Case color. This rifle was found in the gumbo in central S. Dakota. Family history has been a fun project nearly done.

Sharpsman
I understand you wanting to use 650+ bullets so do I but, I am approching this with two thoughts in mind 450gr. to shoot most of the time and have 1" groups at 100yd. that will shoot that well on out to 200yd. I want to try to get this done with paperpatch. The 650+ bullets are for a 1000yd. fun maybe even some comp. who knows might really get into it!! Oh yes I do many Hail Marys and our Father just thinking about shooting, bu the way I am not a brute for recoil I do use a shoulder pad and some times even jurk!!

Buffalocannon
Yes sir nothing but Black and no duplexing I did give it some thought but after talking to some shooters I don't think I will try it. I am glad you brought up the cross sticks, I have gave that a lot of thought just hadn't got that far yet. I see in the issue of Blackpowder Cartridge News a Ad. for a set that you caan set on a bench rest! I have physical limits that makes it damn tuff to get down on the ground, gettin up is the real thing. I have two total knee replacements and the Vet. said not more on your knees bub! I did try it once, of course he was right , won't do that again.
Anyway I have thought about making a set long enough that the would be on the ground but, high enough to work with the bench. More to think about. thanks for your input

Powderbuner
When you think you will be coming to Boise give me a call would like to talk with you. (208) 322-5737. A.K. Burr is the head of the club at Blackscreek range, I have to find out from him how to get the powder. I want some 1F and I am about out of 2F doesn't take long 100gr. at a time.

N2

I did know about the left twist but, it just didn't dawn on me until you brought it up makes sense. I didn't order checkering on my rifle because I can do that, I want to put on the traditional pattern that goes completely around the the stock, have you seen that? I know it will add to control and the cool factor as well! Tell me a little bit more about you 480gr. load what kind of groups are you getting? I see your velocity with the 650 is shooting faster than mine with less powder. How long is your barrel? I got 1199fps with a 32" barrel. By the way have you seen the letters to the shooters in Blackpowder News? The Creedmore match in Fresno a person with a 50-90 took second overall shooting a 717gr. bullet at 1400fps! What kind of firewater was he using! In the rifle I mean!

Thanks to you all for the posts on the 50-90, one more thing have any of you tried to load a 50-90 with 500gr. at 50-70 levels?
Gary

[N2]

Gary - My Shiloh also has a 32" barrel. I believe the velocity difference is due to my using Ffg and your using Fg. I had similar velocities to you with Fg and my accuracy was only so-so. Both lots of Goex Ffg have provided excellent accuracy at 200 and out. I've never shot it at 100 yards. The 480 grain bullet is a FN designed for the 50-110 lever guns. Preliminary groups were in the 2-2½ MOA range at 200 yards @1350 fps (again with Ffg). Another grain or two f powder to increase compression may have helped. I also have the 50-515 FN RCBS (535 grains w/20:1) that was an easy 2 MOA at 200 with the only load I tried. My chronograph was having it's normal mid-day fit and wouldn't read, but with no sight changes I was hitting within an inch or two of the 480 grain bullets. I have a couple of 600 grain bullets as well. The NEI/Gunn 600 shoots very well with 105 grains of 2002 Ffg. It could easily be a chicken load if I wanted to continue shooting silhouette with this rifle. I haven't worked much with any of these light bullets, but as weight went up, group size went down. The 650 Saeco FN would make a great elk bullet or buffalo if you had a mind to shoot one. The 650 Brooks and Paul Jones bullets will shoot match quality groups if I can do my part. Good luck with your restoration project. - Nick

[Ken Hartlein]

Lee Stone, are you reading all this???

[Buckskinner]

Nick

Thanks for your load info. Your groups at 200yd. are exactly where I want to be with paper patch. Will try with a 500gr. with 1F and see happens.

I have a lot of other projects I am working on so will be a few days before I can get out again will keep you posted on results.

I hope MLV is following the post as he was intrested in my results with the paper patched bullets, nothing hot yet Mike for sure but, I am happy with the starting results.
Gary