Water proofing 1863 paper cartridge?

dm3280 · Post by **dm3280** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 2:18 pm

I am starting to really enjoy making the paper cartridges for the 1863 model and started wondering if there was a way to water proof them. From my understanding back in the old days they coated the cartridge in shellac, not sure how to spell that. Has anyone tried this method or is there a better way? I would like to use this rifle this season but would hate to get the cartridges wet making them useless.

Trigger Dr · Post by **Trigger Dr** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 6:32 pm

If you contact a pyrotechnician in your area you may be able to obtain some NC lacqure (Nitrocellulose lacqure) This is used in close proximity fireworks to facilitate ignition for quick acting effects. By brushing it on the FINISHED cartridge, you waterproof it (it dries hard) and greatly increase the ignition speed.
Trigger Dr jim milner

Marathonman · Post by **Marathonman** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 6:49 pm

Probably not a good idea to be smoking a cigarette when filling up your cartridge box then huh?

Yikes!

RichBratlee · Post by **RichBratlee** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 8:58 pm

--Smokin' and black aint ever a good idea together--trust me on this one!!!!

its a "been there and done that" thing!!!!

Todd Birch · Post by **Todd Birch** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:20 pm

Hey dm3280

You ENJOY making up paper rounds for your '63? You're a sick puppy.

There's probably a support group for you somewhere (like the Shiloh web site forum).

Seriously, it is both a challenge and fun to see what results I get by using the methods recommended by folks that 'been there - done that' posted on the forum.
I have a lot more use and respect now for Subway sandwich wrapping paper and Zig Zag cigarette papers. And I loved watching the eyebrows of the local pharmacist arch when I bought his one and only canister of salt peter.
My concern about the nitrocellulose lacquer would be any left over residue, but from the feed back you've gotten, it'll enhance combustion as an accelerant.
Is it a controlled substance only available to licenced pyrotechnicians?

Todd

Trigger Dr · Post by **Trigger Dr** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:28 am

Todd,
I don't know about your country, but here in the lower half of the continent it is NOT controlled and available through most any pyrotech supply house. I will check on the Pyro web site and get an address for you. I have used this NC for a number of things besides pyro. I am a licensed pyrotech and after retirement did professional displays for 3 years, then the opportunity to work in Pro baseball came up and there is NO WAY I would pass that up. it is not a job, but a paid vacation.
Trigger Dr jim milner
PS the NC is generally sold in quart cans about $15.00 if I remember correctly.

Amigo · Post by **Amigo** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:08 am

Hi

I remember reading years ago in the early issues of black powder cartridge rifles about spraying the paper cartridges with hair spray to
help stiffen them and to semi waterproof them.I ve never tried it so I don t know if it works or not.One thing to rememder is that when using anything like lacquer or hair spray is that it might leave a residue in the bore which might affect accurracy and the life of the bore if it proves to be abrasive.

Jeff

Todd Birch · Post by **Todd Birch** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:01 pm

Hey, if it works, why not. Then there are high tech varathanes, acrylics, etc.

There are also natural products like shellac, varnish, etc. How much do we really need to waterproof our rounds? I used to live on the 'wet coast' where I shot flintlocks exclusively.
Because of the waterproof pan on my rifle and knowing how to keep the frizzen dry on my trade gun, my ignition was as good if not better than the percussion guns.

I'm being tongue in cheek about this, really. I've received a lot of comments re: my intentions to try Pyrodex pellets in my '63 as being heretical.
If someone was selling compressed pellets of black powder, I'd be using that. The .303 British was originally loaded with a compressed pellet of BP behind a 215 gr. lead bullet, long before the famous cordite loaded FMJ round. I know guys who shoot it in old .303s with the Lee-Metford rifling in Martini-Henrys.

It's results we're after. The means is governed by what we can live with.

Todd

Rich Siegel · Post by **Rich Siegel** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 7:27 pm

DM 3280,

I've been shooting my '63 Shiloh military carbine in North-South Skirmish Association matches for the past five years. We shoot all our matches offhand on ranges which do not have covered firing lines. I've shot my paper bullets with no problem in rain and snow. I make the paper cartridges from copier paper that I nitrate, glue into a tube, and then glue to the base of a Rapine ringtail bullet. I fill the tube with 50 grains of FFG GOEX powder and glue a cigarette or hair curler paper over the end. The rounds are carried in a cartridge box on my hip and then loaded from there. I haven't had one of these cartridges fail.

Friends have tried making cartridges from cigarette only, which have dissolved when becoming wet. I'd recommend just using nitrated copier paper with no other waterproofing methods but keeping the rounds under cover in a pocket or cartridge box.

Good luck,

Rich

Trigger Dr · Post by **Trigger Dr** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:01 pm

The NC lacqure that I mentioned earlier will NOT leave a residue and will be completely consumed upon ignition. NC stands for nitrocellulose, the same as used in smokless (shudder) However, there is only enough to make the paper water REPELLANT not water PROOF.
Trigger Dr

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Water proofing 1863 paper cartridge?

Water proofing 1863 paper cartridge?

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