BP loading setup.

BigBoresOrBust · Post by **BigBoresOrBust** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 7:59 pm

Hello all. Don't have a Sharps yet, but the paperwork is in the pipeline. I've been shooting .45-70 since i was a teenager, but never in a BP loading. I intend that the Sharps never sees anything but BP, so I have a few questions.

What is a good setup for loading BP cartridges (this will also be a .45-70, if it matters)? Keep in mind I don't have a lot of money.

How do you load BP cartridges? I've heard soem say to use a volumetric load, basically fill the case up to where the bullet will slightly compress the charge, others say to weigh the charge out.

I assume the drop tube is to make sure the powder is packed in good, but what about free space? I was told having free space is dangerous with BP. How do you make sure the bullet is seated deeply enough to leave no free space, but not compress the powder too much? What happens if you compress the powder too much?

Are there special primer to use, or is it the same large rifle primers as for smokeless?

Sorry, probably stupid questions, but I looked through the forum and didn't see if/where they'd been addressed before.

IronSight · Post by **IronSight** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:37 pm

First of all i have to commend you on your decision to use only BP in your new rifle. Second, the answeres to your questions you ask are scattered around this forum, allbeit it would take a weeks worth of reading to find them.
Under no circumstances leave an air space between the power and the bullet, you might get a ringed/bulged barrel or worse.

In order to compress accurately, you will need a reloading press. I use a Lyman TMag II turret, Redding also makes an excellent turret press.

Its been my experience that the powder should be loaded by weight and not volume..some may disagree. This means you will need a scale, preferably an electronic one.

Other items you'll need to get started:
-set of 45-70 reloading dies
-.45 cal compression die
-.45 cal wads store bought or home made with punch
-a drop tube or a BP powder measure with drop tube, i use the Lyman 55 BP measure with drop tube option

Just about all of these items can be purchased from Cabelas or Buffalo Arms: http://www.buffaloarms.com/

As far as how much to compress the powder, you'll find that modern 45-70 brass will be hard pressed to hold 70 gr. powder without some compression depending on bullet type and wads. Most folks compress powder but some don't. I would recommend a minimum compression to ensure no air space and maintain a consistent Over All Length (OAL) dimension for each load. Do not compress with the bullet, use a compression die. If you compress too much, you might deform or bulge the case from the extreme compression pressure. In my experience this stars to happen around .5" compression.

Good luck and i'm sure others will add their input.

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:30 pm

Click on the below link for an article--”Introduction to Black Powder Cartridge Reloading” .

This 38 page primer is a good start to BP cartridge reloading.

You’ll need Adobe Acrobat to open it.

http://www.ssbpcrc.co.uk/Resources/Intr ... oading.pdf

kamotz · Post by **kamotz** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:04 pm

Hi Big Bore, and welcome. No one can give you a recipe for that perfect load in your particular gun. You can only be given "Ballpark" loads to get you close.When the day comes that you begin this quest you will ask yourself ,"what primers, what brand powder,how much compression,how far to seat bullet,what alloy, how much tension on the crimp?? etc. etc. The answer to the question is not going to be discovered in an afternoon. Even the pros are still looking to improve on a great load.If your easy to please,it may be a short journey.But then,Your getting a Shiloh,so that answers that.

Lee Stone · Post by **Lee Stone** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:37 am

You have been given some excellent advice in the forgoing posts. I would like to emphasise the use of a compression die that IronSight suggested. Never compress your powder charge by seating the bullet. Compress the charge with a compression die to the depth you want to seat your bullet. Compressing with the bullet usually results in a deformed bullet that will probably be inaccurate, if it will even seat in the chamber of your rifle.

Smokin · Post by **Smokin** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:13 pm

BigBoreorBust,

I just quickly glanced at the Coydog's loading primer from the link that Ray Newman so graciously provided. It contains some really sound information and is something you should print and wear out. If, from what practices and recipes read there, you can't get a rifle to shoot, sell it and try fly fishing.

I've shot with a lot of the guys whose recipes are listed in the back as well as with Chuck. They're good, and the tips Chuck has gleaned from having them submit information on what works well for them, plus his good experiences, have been developed into this primer. It's my opinion you'll never get better free advice and likely won't get better if you pay for it. Good luck, Smokin

ps, with GOEX, a good way to start is to gently scoop Cartridge or FFg into the case and weigh the charge. Try this a couple of times for a good average. With R-P cases this should be around 70 gr. and with W-W cases it should be 2-3 gr. more. This is a reasonable place to start with your load development. Drop tubing it and further compressing it with a compression die to the level where you can cover all the grease grooves on a SEACO 745 or Lyman 457132 (Postell) will not hurt the performance of the load. Also the use of magnum primers may not be necessary. Standard rifle primers such as the CCI-BR2 and the WLR have both shown good potential. Look for round groups, the smaller the better, or those with the least vertical spread. Horizontal dispersion possibly can be a factor of wind fluctuations that you can't discern while pulling the trigger. Vertical dispersion can indicate velocity changes and may suggest adjustments are in order.

Dead Eye Dick · Post by **Dead Eye Dick** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:16 pm

A big thakns to Ray Newman for his direction to the epistle of BP loading, etc.
Another lunch time + consumed reading all this good info and HUMOR

.
My productivity is in the dumper since I found this user forum.
Still scheming for a way to get the big gun.

BigBoresOrBust · Post by **BigBoresOrBust** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:58 pm

Thanks for all the great info guys. I take it from what I've read so far that I need to just throw out what I know about smokeless reloading when going to BP huh?

RichBratlee · Post by **RichBratlee** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:22 pm

That just about sums it up!!!!!---

BigBoresOrBust · Post by **BigBoresOrBust** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:41 pm

OK, I looked at some of the sites.

I have a Dillon AT500 press, I've seen compression dies for RCBS, Lyman, etc, none for a Dillon. Will any of those compression dies work with the Dillon? That way I could use the dies i have for smokeless, just accomidate the BP necessities.

gmartin · Post by **gmartin** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:51 pm

Smokin,
All of the above were most of the questions I've had myself despite voluminous reading. I own a"63, Maybe someday a "74. I am a passionate fly fisherman with an extensive library, thousands (I'll bet), of dollars invested in tying materials, and I find that the same intellect and physical ability as well as the desire to always improve one and the same considering the two disciplines. One can go as far as they desire either way.
Best to you, Gregg

RichBratlee · Post by **RichBratlee** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:02 pm

The compression die takes the place of the case mouth expander/beller--just unscrew it and the compression die screws into the die not the press--

crazeyiven · Post by **crazeyiven** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:56 pm

I've read a lot about casting bullets, alloy mixes, consistency, etc. But, when you're through all that and have the bullets on the bench, how do you choose sorting groups?

I have a Hoch 50 cal, 650 gr, semi-spitzer, nose pour mould. After reading and asking quite a few questions I've been able to get my pours down to where, say, 75% of the bullets that have passed visual weigh between 653.0 gr and less than 656.0 gr. Probably 90% of those fall in the 654 & 655 range. I'm using MidwayUSA 1/20 alloy with a ladel.

Plus or minus ranges I've seen vary from +- .1 to +- .5. I guess this is where my question is....where do you start? Plus or Minus from where?

The link to the loading basics on the BPCR site has a picture that looks like my desk. I was disappointed it was silent on how to proceed.

May be making this too hard, but, suggestions, comments would be appreciated.

Thanks

David

Ken Hartlein · Post by **Ken Hartlein** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 12:01 pm

The first thing I would recommend would be some really good reference books, both to learn from and also to enjoy. They are "the black powder cartridge loading primer" by MLV and Steve Garbe, "shooting buffalo rifles of the old west", by Mike Venturino, and "reloading the black powder cartridge" by Paul Matthews. These are excellant books, you will read them over and over and over and......................................

JAGG · Post by **JAGG** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:52 pm

BBOB ! You might want to use a RCBS Rock Chucker press for powder compression ! The Dillon is a good press but why add to many stresses to it ? JAGG

Shiloh Rifle Forums

BP loading setup.

BP loading setup.

Beginning with the .45-70

Thanks Ray

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