54 caliber percussion bullets

[jeffc]

I have a 1863 percussion sporting rifle in 54 caliber and was wondering where I could find molds for the correct paper cartridge bullet and the amount of and type of powder. thanks

[Todd Birch]

Hi Jeff

Welcome to the fold!

Go back and read some previous posts. There's been lots said about what works and what don't on the topic.
Look in the hunting forum for the story on Levi Bryan's 170 yard kill with his '63.

Shoot a '63 - the first Sharps (with a vertical breech)!

Todd

[Ken Hartlein]

I would check with dixie gun works, they have all that stuff and much more.

[OMD]

Hi Jeff,

I just ordered a mould from Buffalo Arms at (208) 263-6953 for my Shiloh Model 1863 military rifle. Buffalo Arms sells Rapine bullet moulds that are based on the original 1863 bullets.

There's a ringtail bullet which weighs about 475 grains. I believe it is named for the button at the base of the bullet. The button is used by some to secure the paper cartridge to the bullet using silk threat. MLV had a short article a while back on making paper cartridges using these type of bullets for his original Model 1863 Sharps carbine -- I don't know whether he was using a Rapine mould. I have seen this style bullet referred to as the "old model bullet." However, I do not know whether this is also the bullet some refer to as the "Christmas tree bullet."

There's also a 415 grain bullet which has a flat base and does not have the button. I have seen it referred to as the "new model bullet." This is the style bullet mould that I ordered. My thinking is that the flat base may provide greater accuracy.

Finally, Rapine makes two moulds which are essential wadcutters. One of the moulds comes with the button (510 grains) and the other without (440 grains) . This style of bullet is sometimes referred to as a "trash can bullet." I have heard that they are extremely accurate at short ranges (50-100 yards).

There are a few other manufacturers out there who make bullets for the Model 1863. However, I'm unfamiliar their products.

I've had good luck shooting the ringtail bullets with 45 grains of FFg. However, like many in other jurisdictions, I have had trouble buying blackpowder at a reasonable cost. As such, I have started experimenting with Pyrodex pellets. I think the blackpowder provides greater accuracy.

I hope this helps.

Owen

[jeffc]

Thank you, I found the Rapine molds 544475 & 544415 at www.ch4d.com
I think I will try the 544475 with the smaller button. I've never made paper cartridges before, so it looks easier to learn on.... Plus ch4d is about a half hour from work.

As far as black powder, it's hard to find in central Ohio because dealers are supposed to store it in vaults. I'll have to track some down. Can it be mail ordered? or is that illegal also?

Thanks again,
jeffc

[gmartin]

Jeff,

All right! A future '63 shooter. Carefull, it's addictive. So far my best accuracy has been with an old Shiloh mould that produces a wadcutter type bullet of I believe 400 grns. Wish I knew more about it so I could tell you more. Just been shooting another bullet by RCBS of a Hodgdon .540 minie' that is adjustible and hasn't been disappointing. Have a flat plug newly made and have'nt shot the bullets it casts yet. I like 60 grns. 2fg., paper tissue filler, in a nitrated cartridge with bullet glued tight. Try less than 60 grns also. Also use bullet tapped in with starter backed by rolled and folded combustible cartridge. Lateley though I "bit the bullet" and make the more time consuming cartridge with bullet inserted and they shot better. (I was sceptical until I tried it.) This for a Farmingdale '63 carbine I've had for 26 years.

Have fun, yes look at all the past posts. Gregg

[Rich Siegel]

I, and several of my friends, find the Rapine ringtail bullet 557475 works best in our Shiloh '63 military carbines as well as the '63 military rifle. In my carbine, I use 50 grains of GOEX FFG powder with the Rapine bullet made from a soft(not exact), bullet alloy. I tried sizing the bullets to bore diameter, .547, but the bullet works best unsized, as cast, around .549.

[jeffc]

OK, I guess I have another newbie question then.

I thought the first three numbers "544475" meant a .544 bullet diameter and the 475 meant bullet weight. Would'nt I want the 544475 for the 1863 sporting rifle in 54 caliber.

Would'nt a 557 dia bullet cause excessive pressure or lead the barrel?

Sorry if this is a dumb question....

Jeffc

[OMD]

The ring tails which I have been using are .545 and they seem to work just fine. Perhaps with a softer alloy a larger diameter bullet would produce greater accuracy.

OMD

[gmartin]

Jeff,
I shot outrageous stuff in my carbine when out of my usual bullets such as minies' for .577 enfields, .570 round balls breech loaded still with 60 grns. 2fg. Don't worry about .577 bullets. I like the heavier charge of 60 grns. 2fg since that is what I have used for so long. Yes, maybe I should back down as suggested by many. Your sporter may indeed be capable of using larger powder charges and heavier bullets. Gee, Aint this fun!
Gregg (Pyrodex may be a solution if BP is hard to locate, so far as I know, BP shipped only maker, or dealer, to dealer)

[gmartin]

Jeff,
I meant .557 bullets, the '63 is so accomodating and strong, but don't replicate my actions of long past. Yet it worked.
Gregg

[Rich Siegel]

Jeff,

By all logic, the Rapine 557475 should cast a 557 bullet but it doesn't. It actually casts a 549 bullet. This works just fine in my '63 Shiloh without lead problems. Go figure.

As to shooting oversized bullets, one unit during the Civil War ran out of cartridges for their 50 caliber Smith carbines so they got some 54 caliber Sharps paper cartridges and fired them. No porblems but I bet the accuracy was not great and the bullet looked funny when it left the carbine. Seriously, military black powder rifles were designed to be almost bullet proof. The new Shilohs are so strong that if you use black powder, there is a tremendous safety margin

Rich

[gmartin]

Jeff, Rich, FYI,
Golly, someone else did as I did when I ran out of ammo at a club shoot in 1978. Except this was 1863 and far more important than a club shoot. Please see CIVIL WAR SHARPS CARBINES AND RIFLES, by Coates and McAulay, 1996. I'll paraphrase a section from page 22. Theodore Ellis's two companies of Infantry with .52 Sharps rifles ran out of ammunition during Pickett's charge. They then successfully borrowed .58 Springfield Rifled Musket ammunition from men next to them with no damage to the Sharps rifles. I knew I had this in the back of my mind someplace.
Great book by the way. Gregg

[jeffc]

Thanks for all the info, I sure learned alot and anxious to get started.

It's taken awhile to decide to shoot them, they are consecutive serial numbers. I don't know if the consecutive numbers mean alot in value on the Shiloh's... I think it's kinda hard to find them like that though.

Oh well, I'll quit rambling, thanks again
Jeff

[Lee Stone]

jeffc,

Gunpowder can be mail ordered or via the internet or phone. Here is where I get my Swiss gunpowder:

http://www.mainepowderhouse.com/


Here is where I get my Goex:

http://www.powderinc.com/


Both places are good people to deal with in my opinion.


I personally do not care for the substitutes, so I prefer real gunpowder.


I hope this is useful to you.