I finally decided to commit myself to trying paper patching bullets. I've put together the necessary goodies, and have assembled 25 cartridges this week as my test. Weather this weekend is to be in the 60's, perfect for shooting, and I intend to get some idea what to expect.
My load as it now stands is..... .45-2.6, Bell basic brass trimmed to length, Buffalo Arms swagged and tapered 540 grain bullets, with B.A. .002" cotton patch paper, over 84 grains GOEX 2-f compressed .350", .030 card wad on powder, .100 SPG lube cookie on wad. Bullet is seated to just kiss the lands.
Rifle is 74 Sharps, of course, @13.5 pounds. Globe and tang sights. Test is at 200 yards from bench.
I will report my results to you, good or bad, ASAP. This ought to be a kick!!!
If there are any last minute suggestions before Saturday, please speak up now, I would sure like get some input. .......Thanks
About to try Paper Patching
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Lead Slinger
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About to try Paper Patching
Remember, God shoots a Sharps Lead Slinger
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Omaha Poke
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Lead Slinger, after you get done shooting, if possible without danger to yourself from other shooters, check down range about 5-20 feet, and collect some of your paper patch material and wads. If will reveal somewhat how your grease cookie is working, and whether the lands are cutting the patch suffieciently, or if they are traveling down range with the bullet. Don't forget to put a wax paper wad between the grease cookie and the base of the patched bullet. I forgot one time, and the lube migrated to the paper, and accuracy went out the window. Have fun, Randy
Randy Ruwe
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Brent
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Re: About to try Paper Patching
[quote="Lead Slinger"]I finally decided to commit myself to trying paper patching bullets. [/quote]
Slinger, Welcome to the Brotherhood! We are honored to have ya but remember, no matter how dark and mysterious things may become, you will come out into the light on the other side, and we fellow followers of the PPB faith are here to offer support and guidance and anything else that you require. :) :)
BTW, what is the diameter of your bullet after patching?
Will you swab the bore before each shot?
Please grab that first patch, and, if you shoot a dirty bore, your fifth or sixth and maybe 10th patch as well. Keep track of them. They will tell you more than the holes in the paper
Brent
Slinger, Welcome to the Brotherhood! We are honored to have ya but remember, no matter how dark and mysterious things may become, you will come out into the light on the other side, and we fellow followers of the PPB faith are here to offer support and guidance and anything else that you require. :) :)
BTW, what is the diameter of your bullet after patching?
Will you swab the bore before each shot?
Please grab that first patch, and, if you shoot a dirty bore, your fifth or sixth and maybe 10th patch as well. Keep track of them. They will tell you more than the holes in the paper
Brent
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Omaha Poke
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Lead, just don't get so involved in watching where your patches go that you take your eye off the target 
I have tried both swabbing after each shot, and not, but have not noticed any significant difference in accuracy with either. I have shot as many as 20 PP rounds without cleaning the bore. Paper patching is little used or explored these days, so a lot of what you do you need to keep good notes on. That way you won't make some of the same mistakes over again. The PP bullet has not won any major matches for quite some time, but that is part of the challenge. I almost gave up last year at a match, but it was my fault, not the fact that I was using PP bullets. I just plain and simple screwed up on my loading procedure. So Keep good notes and don't be afraid to try different things. Randy 
I have tried both swabbing after each shot, and not, but have not noticed any significant difference in accuracy with either. I have shot as many as 20 PP rounds without cleaning the bore. Paper patching is little used or explored these days, so a lot of what you do you need to keep good notes on. That way you won't make some of the same mistakes over again. The PP bullet has not won any major matches for quite some time, but that is part of the challenge. I almost gave up last year at a match, but it was my fault, not the fact that I was using PP bullets. I just plain and simple screwed up on my loading procedure. So Keep good notes and don't be afraid to try different things. Randy Randy Ruwe
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MLV
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Al
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Lead Slinger
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To All:
Thanks for all the encouragement and suggestions. I know this is the beginning of a long journey. I have 15 years experience with BP and GG bullets. Paper patch is the next step in the evolution.
For those who asked, the bullet diameter patched at the base is .458, about half way up it starts to taper. Where the patch ends, diameter is .446. Patch extends .950 up the sides, and is 1.100 overall. Patches are applied wet, soaked in warm water. I made up a small patching jig that made starting the patches straight much easier. Cases are fired and not sized at all, and the patched bullets fit snug and will not fall out. Primer for the first trial is Federal 215. My intention is to shoot dirty with 5 breaths between each shot, cleaning after each 12. Two foulers followed by a pair of 5 shot goups.
Thanks for all the encouragement and suggestions. I know this is the beginning of a long journey. I have 15 years experience with BP and GG bullets. Paper patch is the next step in the evolution.
For those who asked, the bullet diameter patched at the base is .458, about half way up it starts to taper. Where the patch ends, diameter is .446. Patch extends .950 up the sides, and is 1.100 overall. Patches are applied wet, soaked in warm water. I made up a small patching jig that made starting the patches straight much easier. Cases are fired and not sized at all, and the patched bullets fit snug and will not fall out. Primer for the first trial is Federal 215. My intention is to shoot dirty with 5 breaths between each shot, cleaning after each 12. Two foulers followed by a pair of 5 shot goups.
Remember, God shoots a Sharps Lead Slinger
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KHR
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- Location: Lone Star State, Central TX
Hi all
I'm also starting the paperpatch journey. I'm using the 510 gr buffalo arms tapered bullet. using their 100 cotton patching paper. doing the grease cookie with wads and swiss 1.5 My bullets start at .450 before patching havent measured the patched bullet yet.
I am patching the bullet on a sheet of 1/2 inch glass, seem to be able to get a tight roll. I have also found that the paper grain direction affects the length of my patch. I have been following the Matthews book, "the paper jacket." Am going to make a patching jig that he recommends out of plexiglass.
Im interested about the idea of multiple shots without wiping (with blowtube), I always thought that the most you could shoot accurately was about 2 shots in a row. What do you experts think?
keith
I'm also starting the paperpatch journey. I'm using the 510 gr buffalo arms tapered bullet. using their 100 cotton patching paper. doing the grease cookie with wads and swiss 1.5 My bullets start at .450 before patching havent measured the patched bullet yet.
I am patching the bullet on a sheet of 1/2 inch glass, seem to be able to get a tight roll. I have also found that the paper grain direction affects the length of my patch. I have been following the Matthews book, "the paper jacket." Am going to make a patching jig that he recommends out of plexiglass.
Im interested about the idea of multiple shots without wiping (with blowtube), I always thought that the most you could shoot accurately was about 2 shots in a row. What do you experts think?
keith
Some originals and some Shilohs.
Molon Labe
Molon Labe
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Rick Crabtree
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While it is true major matches are being won with PP bullets. I think they could be. The Creedmoor scores of the mid and late 1870's are at least as impressive as scores being shot today as far as I can tell. In the 1870's PP bullets were used exclusively for long the creedmoor matches.
Some of my observations on 20 plus years of "tinkering " with PP bullets are.
1. Grease Groove bullet technology doesn't necessarily work for PP technology and has been a curse to PP shooting for the past 30 years. Mainly the persistence of trying to shoot black powder PP loads with groove diameter bullets. Much of what is needed for good PP bullet loading is not available.
only custom mould cast bullets of the proper diameter. ( Which is BORE not Groove dia for much of the forward part of the bullet.) Many commercial dies do not size the case enough at the neck to securley hold a bullet of bore diameter.
2. Tapered bullets work better than straight sided bullets.
3. Get as much of the bullet up into the rifling as posible. Generally the more the better the accuracy. If one studies original PP ammo. You see that the sporting loads usually are seated deeper than the target loads this is why the 45 2 7/8' case was loaded with as little as 90 grains and the 45 2 4/10' was loaded with as much as 105 grains. But they all were seated so at least 1/3 of the bullet was up in the rifling.
4. It is nice to see the patch cut into nice even strips. But accuracy is accuracy is accuracy. What IS most important is that the patch comes off the bullet immediatly. Last weekend I shot some very nice groups 1 1/2"-3 1/2"@200 yards. The patches were not neat strips. Because this rifle rifling is only .007" deep it does not quite cut through the all the patch near the front end of the patch. This is because the patch is deeper than the rifling by .001". If your first patch shot out of a clean barrel come out dark or burnt looking you are not getting a sufficient seal between the bullet and the bore, and it is almost accuracy will be poor at best.
5. If you haven't read the chapter on PP bullets in Mike Venturino's book
read it. It is a great primer for entering into the PP fetish.
6. I am not a very good shot but I am completely convinced I look cooler missing with a PP load than I would missing with GG bullet.
Some of my observations on 20 plus years of "tinkering " with PP bullets are.
1. Grease Groove bullet technology doesn't necessarily work for PP technology and has been a curse to PP shooting for the past 30 years. Mainly the persistence of trying to shoot black powder PP loads with groove diameter bullets. Much of what is needed for good PP bullet loading is not available.
only custom mould cast bullets of the proper diameter. ( Which is BORE not Groove dia for much of the forward part of the bullet.) Many commercial dies do not size the case enough at the neck to securley hold a bullet of bore diameter.
2. Tapered bullets work better than straight sided bullets.
3. Get as much of the bullet up into the rifling as posible. Generally the more the better the accuracy. If one studies original PP ammo. You see that the sporting loads usually are seated deeper than the target loads this is why the 45 2 7/8' case was loaded with as little as 90 grains and the 45 2 4/10' was loaded with as much as 105 grains. But they all were seated so at least 1/3 of the bullet was up in the rifling.
4. It is nice to see the patch cut into nice even strips. But accuracy is accuracy is accuracy. What IS most important is that the patch comes off the bullet immediatly. Last weekend I shot some very nice groups 1 1/2"-3 1/2"@200 yards. The patches were not neat strips. Because this rifle rifling is only .007" deep it does not quite cut through the all the patch near the front end of the patch. This is because the patch is deeper than the rifling by .001". If your first patch shot out of a clean barrel come out dark or burnt looking you are not getting a sufficient seal between the bullet and the bore, and it is almost accuracy will be poor at best.
5. If you haven't read the chapter on PP bullets in Mike Venturino's book
read it. It is a great primer for entering into the PP fetish.
6. I am not a very good shot but I am completely convinced I look cooler missing with a PP load than I would missing with GG bullet.
" I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees"
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Rick Crabtree
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KHR
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rick,
You’ve got me thinking, PP for competition, sounds like a good idea. How deep should I seat, don't I want clearance for the fouling, or does vigorous blowtubing keep the fowling soft enough so the deeper-seated PP will work? I have been testing my rounds at the loading bench by fitting the rounds into the chamber, should I see a little rifleling engraving on the paper?
I'm just starting on this, where would one get tapered moulds?
Thanks
keith
You’ve got me thinking, PP for competition, sounds like a good idea. How deep should I seat, don't I want clearance for the fouling, or does vigorous blowtubing keep the fowling soft enough so the deeper-seated PP will work? I have been testing my rounds at the loading bench by fitting the rounds into the chamber, should I see a little rifleling engraving on the paper?
I'm just starting on this, where would one get tapered moulds?
Thanks
keith
Some originals and some Shilohs.
Molon Labe
Molon Labe
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Brent
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KHR,
Look at Grant's first book "Single Shot Rifles". You will see that target rounds were seated with 0.1" or so in the case. These photos are 1:1 with remarkable accuracy. You can learn a lot by looking at them.
Second, plan on wiping between shots. Not blowing. Your eyesight will be better and it's just as fast anyway - if you do some planning. You can make up "fuller" swabs that you simply push through once, let fall from the muzzle and then retract the rod and load again.
Brent
Look at Grant's first book "Single Shot Rifles". You will see that target rounds were seated with 0.1" or so in the case. These photos are 1:1 with remarkable accuracy. You can learn a lot by looking at them.
Second, plan on wiping between shots. Not blowing. Your eyesight will be better and it's just as fast anyway - if you do some planning. You can make up "fuller" swabs that you simply push through once, let fall from the muzzle and then retract the rod and load again.
Brent
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KHR
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- Location: Lone Star State, Central TX
Brent
on one of the posts you mentioned .50 compression. Are you refering to compressing swiss? I thought you did not compress swiss.
secondly is the wiping patch wet or moist?
thanks,
keith
ps. also since you are in education, do you get your summers off? I hope to attend some competitions during summer break. A good job for keeping up with hobbies.
on one of the posts you mentioned .50 compression. Are you refering to compressing swiss? I thought you did not compress swiss.
secondly is the wiping patch wet or moist?
thanks,
keith
ps. also since you are in education, do you get your summers off? I hope to attend some competitions during summer break. A good job for keeping up with hobbies.
Some originals and some Shilohs.
Molon Labe
Molon Labe
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Brent
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[quote="KHR"]Brent
on one of the posts you mentioned .50 compression. Are you refering to compressing swiss? I thought you did not compress swiss.
secondly is the wiping patch wet or moist?
thanks,
:-)
keith
ps. also since you are in education, do you get your summers off? I hope to attend some competitions during summer break. A good job for keeping up with hobbies.[/quote]
Yes, compress the Swiss. You should always experiment with compression. For MOST people, little or no compression works well with Swiss but every rifle and cartridge is unique and you may get different results.
In any event heavy compression will not give the best accuracy usually but it will let you shoot better when you can neither blow nor wipe between shots. It's a tradeoff for special occassions, like follow up shots on downed elk.
Yes, I'm am academic, but no I do not get summers off. All biologists work 12 months of the year pretty much.
Brent
on one of the posts you mentioned .50 compression. Are you refering to compressing swiss? I thought you did not compress swiss.
secondly is the wiping patch wet or moist?
thanks,
:-)
keith
ps. also since you are in education, do you get your summers off? I hope to attend some competitions during summer break. A good job for keeping up with hobbies.[/quote]
Yes, compress the Swiss. You should always experiment with compression. For MOST people, little or no compression works well with Swiss but every rifle and cartridge is unique and you may get different results.
In any event heavy compression will not give the best accuracy usually but it will let you shoot better when you can neither blow nor wipe between shots. It's a tradeoff for special occassions, like follow up shots on downed elk.
Yes, I'm am academic, but no I do not get summers off. All biologists work 12 months of the year pretty much.
Brent