45-70 smokeless powder loads

[BlackMagic]

I want to use smokeless powder for some loads in my "new" Sharps rifle / 45-70. What do you recommend for out to 700 yards. Powder brand / type? Grains? Bullet (I was planning on starting with 405grn RNFP bullets)?

Can I use factory 45-70 ammo? What do you recommend?

Todd

[Omaha Poke]

Black Magic, I have used AA XMP 5744 with good results out to 800 yds. Haven't tried it beyond that yardage because I changed over to straight BP soon there after. BP works the best, but if you wish to try smokeless, then go with the 5744. 28.5 grs behind a 530 grain, 30-1, bullet works.
Randy

[BlackMagic]

Kirk,

Can you tell me which loading data I need to stick with.

- loads for Ruger No. 1 & No. 3 Single-shots?
- loads for trapdoor rifles?
- ???

Todd

[Lee Stone]

Black Magic,

When Kirk comes on he will tell you that any Shiloh is rated to take the same loads as a Ruger #1.

Kirk builds a strong action.

[BlackMagic]

Thanks ... that is what I needed to know!

[carl thomas zmuda]

In my 1874 Pedersoli Sharps I favor XRP5744 for smokeless loads using the Postel or Gove't bullet.

[Bombay club]

hello,Gents,
using smokeless or BP,how far should the bullet be before it comes in contact with the rifling?
should any of the lube grooves be exposed to reach optimum distance?
just another new shooter having a heck of a lot of fun shooting a #1 45-70.
thanks. :

[8iowa]

Hello bombay:

In the past I have loaded 45-70 smokless loads for a marlin lever action rifle. I now have a new model Winchester 1886, but this time I'm staying strictly with black powder. With GOEX Cartridge and an SPG lubed Lyman 405 gr FP bullet I get 1150 fps out of the 22 inch barrel.

The Ruger #1 is probably the strongest action chambered for 45-70. With jacketed bullets and smokless powder it is possible to approach 458 Winchester ballistics. However, using these maximum loads in any other rifle could be extremely hazzardous. This is why Marlin and Hornady created the .450 Marlin, a high pressure cartridge that cannot be chambered in trapdoor and other weaker actions.

For smokless loads I always liked IMR 3031 because it provides a decent loading density. Cast bullet velocities probably need to be kept under 1500 fps to avoid barrel leading problems. For reference, it's hard to beat Lyman's new #48 manual because it list both jacketed and cast bullet loadings, as well as over all cartridge lengths.

[Bombay club]

Hello 8iowa
I am using the 48th edition & it has worked well,although I do not understand why they show the reloads that take cast bullets past the the 1500 fps when it obviously means leading problems.Anyhow I have a 45-90 arriving in about 10 days & the 45-110 in about 3 mos,so I think I should now start reading about BP & move on up the learning curve:lol:

[Rdurk]

Black Magic. If you're going to load your own ammo .. shooting black powder in these rifles is not any more complicated than shooting smokeless. If you are buying lead cast bullets, you can buy them lubed with SPG. The clean up is very quick. The only real additional step is the need to use a blow tube between shots. I'm waiting for my rifle (should be ready in 6 weeks) but had a chance to shoot a mid range match two weeks ago in Georgia. 200, 300, and 600 yards .. a black powder match .. a friend loaned me his Shiloh 40-65 and ammo .. and it was amazing how accurate these rifles are at that distance. Try some black powder .. you might be surprised how much these rifles like it and how relatively simple it is once you get the right load developed. Hold Center.

[mrmtox]

My Shiloh 45-70 shots BP great out to 700 - 800 yards - when outdoors. At my local indoor range it's smokeless only. That explanation should satisfy the purists.
My best smokeless load to date, consistently 1- 1.5 " groups at 100 yards:
Winchester brass well cleaned!
CCI BR2 large rifle primers
Barry's 350 grain copper plated bullets
35.0 grains IMR 4198 (same as recommended for Reloader 7)
OAL = 2.572"
Hope this gives anyone a starting point. It seems the full loading data are difficult to find.
BP data for the 45-70 (510 gr Creedmore bullet) available on request.

Also have a "Quigley" 45-110 that is BP only for me and, so far, fun out to 800 yards. Next Fall will move on the 900 & 1000 yards.
BP data (550 gr paper patch bullet) available on request.

[carl thomas zmuda]

100 % Black powder is the best choice.

[mrmtox]

Thank you so much, Carl. That's a very helpful and insightful addition for helping someone who is looking for assisrtance to the topic of this particular forum.

[Ray Newman]

Guess the OP found what he was looking for. He posted his query back in 2004 and he has not been around since May 2004.

[JonnyV]

Thank you so much, Carl. That's a very helpful and insightful addition for helping someone who is looking for assisrtance to the topic of this particular forum.

Carl's response from 19 years ago (little farther up the page) advised to try 5744. I used to shoot 5744 in 45-70, and in MHO Carl's more recent response is a lot safer and more likely to yield good results. The issue is in separating the facts from the voodoo as it relates to loading BP....