Raton Dates announcement

[Don McDowell]

How late in the day to they do the registration for BPTR normally? It’s a 10 hour drive for me and I’m trying to figure out the date and time I have to get on the road, plus if I have another added day of lodging.

Thx

You should probably plan on arriving on the 22nd. Use the 23rd to pick up your packet and get accustom to the altitude. If you're going to do all the BPCR and BPTR and 22, you'll need to plan 12 nights lodging.

[BFD]

Ty, the problem never was Greg Connor, but he was a bit of a scapegoat. There also seems to be very little disconnect between the Whit and the match directors. Gage, Kidwell, Jeanne all seem to have VERY good communication with them and the matches have been very well done, the facility in great condition and everyone had a great time. NRA central may be out of touch, but that really doesn't affect us very much in the end, at least not directly.

Frankly, I don't get the big deal about the dates. We are getting them far in advance, most of us can deal with that, some of us won't, but others will be enabled, rather than disabled by the change. I do lots of things that have variable dates and I will do lots of things this summer for which the date have not yet been chosen. I will shoot in Oak Ridge for instance in March and the dates are not yet chosen. Lodi will be another 2 or 3 trips and the dates are not known, not even the months or formats in some cases. I realize that some people have more rigid or even totally inflexible lives but perhaps as many are enabled by a date change as are disabled by it, esp when we are talking shifts of only a few weeks in midsummer. Let's not make a monster out of a relative mole hill. Again.

And again, this thread is turning into a repeat of every other thread on this topic. Lots of finger pointing by those that are generally there anyway and not much from the folks that aren't coming, but are listening to this site. I should have known better.

[semtav]

And again, this thread is turning into a repeat of every other thread on this topic. Lots of finger pointing by those that are generally there anyway and not much from the folks that aren't coming, but are listening to this site. I should have known better.

You're right !! A few years back I expressed my opinion on this subject and was told to STFU cause I'd never shot there so couldn't have a clue about anything. Nothing's changed. The NRA and the shooters that do go need to be more ears and less voice for a while and maybe they would find out why so few go.

If one simple rule change would triple the number of people attending the BPTR would they listen ?? I doubt it.

[BFD]

You're right !! A few years back I expressed my opinion on this subject and was told to STFU cause I'd never shot there so couldn't have a clue about anything. Nothing's changed. The NRA and the shooters that do go need to be more ears and less voice for a while and maybe they would find out why so few go.

And that's what I was asking. I'm listening. So are others. WHY have YOU not gone to the Nationals? Specifcally.

If one simple rule change would triple the number of people attending the BPTR would they listen ?? I doubt it.

And on what basis do you make that claim? What rule change would cause YOU to go, never mind 3x more additional shooters? Be specific.

[semtav]

And that's what I was asking. I'm listening. So are others. WHY have YOU not gone to the Nationals? Specifcally.

My occupation doesn't allow me to go anytime but winter. So not much you can do about that.

If one simple rule change would triple the number of people attending the BPTR would they listen ?? I doubt it.

And on what basis do you make that claim? What rule change would cause YOU to go, never mind 3x more additional shooters? Be specific.

Nothing would cause me to go except a drastic schedule change and I'm not advocating that.( If they kept it in Oct, I would have tried but that really depends on the season conditions)

On the rule change, I'm just asking? Would anyone be open to even listening. Cause it obviously wouldn't be a popular rule with those attending now.

[semtav]

And that's what I was asking. I'm listening. So are others. WHY have YOU not gone to the Nationals? Specifcally.

My occupation doesn't allow me to go anytime but winter. So not much you can do about that.

If one simple rule change would triple the number of people attending the BPTR would they listen ?? I doubt it.

And on what basis do you make that claim? What rule change would cause YOU to go, never mind 3x more additional shooters? Be specific.

Nothing would cause me to go except a drastic schedule change and I'm not advocating that.( If they kept it in Oct, I would have tried but that really depends on the season conditions)

On the rule change, I'm just asking? Would anyone be open to even listening. Cause it obviously wouldn't be a popular rule with those attending now.

[BFD]

I don't care about rule changes here - start another thread please.

If there is nothing that can be done to get you to come to the Nationals, then you do not need to be part of this conversation. I'm looking for people that might come if some reasonable issue is reasonably met. I haven't seen anything that is going to help get more people to the 2019 match.

[LazyM]

I shot at the Nationals a few years back for the first time. Not sure I'd go back. Not sure I'm the one to post here, but then again, maybe? So here are my thoughts.

I use to live in Cheyenne. Talk about plenty of shooting venues! Damn it was good. Now living the "Island LIfe" in the southeast, shooting venues are few and far between. Giving me a somewhat unique perspective as to traveling for any type of BP event.

As for the nationals...like I said, I went once. The weather was absolutely horrific. And as much as it restricted shooting, I'm pretty sure it was no ones "fault" believing such things are handled by a much higher power than any shooting director? However, having signed up for only one event (Silhouette), I didn't realize you were suppose to show up a couple days early to sign in, weigh the rifle, get ones yearly sticker, etc. Does anyone know that I shot that year with a rifle that wasn't weighed? Did anyone care? I didn't really feel it if they did. I basically came away from the nationals with a "no so much" warm and fuzzy feeling.

Having said that, has anyone been to one of Cody's (and Gary's and Cora's) shoots? If you don't feel welcome there, there is something definitely wrong with you!! And why does the Q continue to grow (and it is known for weather issues as well, no?)? I definitely miss the shoot in Ogden...another great shoot! Not sure the NRA is a big supporter of our sport. I do believe the shooters and individual BPCR manufacturers/suppliers are!! Just look at the door prizes.

I do think consistent dates would be a positive, and said dates to be in the summer to accommodate most people who have a family life (remember, we're looking for the next, and younger, generation to continue this sport. Let's accommodate them!!).

Not sure I'd drive all the way back to Raton to shoot...even though I'm headed back to Cheyenne for family visits (maybe this speaks more than anything said above). I am looking forward to heading north of Atlanta this coming year to check out their venue. I guess the local venues are just the place for me.

Just my 2 cents and worth every damn plug nickle you paid for it!

B.

[LazyM]

Sorry....after reading BFD's post, I apologize for posting the above. I'll shut up.

[BFD]

Lazy M. That's helpful.

I didn't realize that weighing was a big deal. One year in Raton, I think there was no weighing, but I might misremebmer. I didn't realize that Cody and Kidwell weighed rifles. Never been to one of their matches. In all the regionals I've been at, and it's a few, I've never had a rifle weighed.

Not sure what can be done to get you to come again, but I hope you do and I hope you have a lot better time somehow. I'd be happy to offer a beer or three in the spirit of making it a little warmer and fuzzier

[DeadEye]

Brent,

I don't think you've ever been to the 'Q' so you may not know that every year, Al, Buz and now Claudia start the shooter's meeting with, "There is only ONE rule at the Quigley, HAVE FUN. I read somewhere, it might have been here, that the shoots that are growing have the thinnest rule books.

Back around 2007 one evening after the shooting was done there was a knock on the door of our camper. It was Al Lee. I had only met the man and certainly didn't invite him so I was quite surprised to see him there. We invited him in and for an hour we listened to the history of the Quigley. As the match grew in numbers Al had been invited to NRA HQ to see if the match could be brought into the fold. All went well until the issue of powder came up and that is where the discussion stopped. The NRA were not prepared to have a 'Any Safe Powder Charge Nationals' and Al knew the secret to the success of The Quigley was that one fact. All the matches that Semtav is involved with have that provision, be it Black, Duplex or Smokeless. Al believes that is the reason for the success of the 'Q'. He also believes that the targets should be easy to hit, people drive a long way to hear that Gong, and until someone shoots a perfect score (no one ever has) the targets are going to stay easy to hit. That makes it FUN. There you have my answer to your question, "What rule change would cause YOU to go, never mind 3x more additional shooters? Be specific." Of course it can't happen and that's the elephant on the range.

Paul

[BFD]

Paul, Indeed, I have NOT been to the Q. But any of the many matches, including the Nationals, that I've been to that is attended by Jim Shride always includes his spot on observation - "if you aren't hear to have fun, go home". So, the Q doesn't sound so different that way.

Any powder might increase the attendance at the Nationals. Could be.

How many rifles have blown up at the Q? Not aware of any blowing up at the Nationals, BPCR and BPTR included.

[BFD]

I should add that I don't think the "any powder" issue is responsible for the the decline from over 400 silhouette shooters to 100 currently.

[Kurt]

There aren't many places like the Q and Baker Mt. or the Mt 1000 where you have free camping for a week or more and shoot all you want during your stay for $ 30 and a bunch of top National shooters are there to compete against. The Q might be a Gong shoot but the competition is just as tough with some of the best and most awful weather conditions to shoot in.

Kurt

[DeadEye]

Well Brent you can speak with authority on how easy it is to blow up a rifle (I'm so glad you weren't seriously hurt). There have been two rifles come apart at the 'Q' in 27 years times 500 shooters average per year?? but the people who have never been there use that as a reason not to go just like the Gong shooters won't go to the Nationals because they shoot smokeless or duplex. Stalemate.

My point is there is NO rule book for the 'Q', none, nada. The 2018 NRA Silhouette rule book is 56 pages long. I have a permanent shortcut on my desktop for easy reference. Gong shooters do not have to concern themselves about weight restrictions, no clothing restrictions to worry about. I understand our oft time National Champ was protested for the clothes he was wearing this summer. That feeling of I hope I'm not breaking some rule I don't know about is not a problem for Gong shooters. They can relax and have FUN. Jim Shride is a great guy but there is a difference between a voice in the crowd and the Match Director saying 'The ONLY RULE is HAVE FUN.

Paul