Any Comments on Buffalo Arms' Paper-Patch Bullets?

taw1126 · Post by **taw1126** » Sun May 02, 2004 11:24 am

I'm gearing up to try some paper-patched bullets and one of the easiest places for me to get the materials is Buffalo Arms. They have both tapered and parallel/straight-sided, unpatched bullets available. A couple of questions:
1) It seems that the parallel bullets will be easier to patch. What's the corresponding downside? Are they less accurate, or harder to load in dirty chambers?
2) Any general comments on using these bullets? Are these the ones made by Montana Precision Swaging?
3) My plan is to buy the .440-inch 500-grain bullets and patch using 16-pound paper. From the little bit of research I've done that should result in a patched diameter of .450-inch. I'm open to suggestions on all of this.

Thanks,
Trey

RichBratlee · Post by **RichBratlee** » Sun May 02, 2004 12:53 pm

Hey taw, I tried both and the only trouble I had was getting them big enough to get some neck tension on and keep them small enough to still chamber--This is in a 45-70 and I think I am going to go with a custom bullet if I can find someone to make the mould I drew up--

$Rich

KHR · Post by **KHR** » Sun May 02, 2004 1:51 pm

taw
I've just begun to use the tapered pure lead PP 510 gn buff arms bullet. I neck size my case and use a very light taper crimp. I seat to be just off the lands so it wont tear the patch. seems to be really good so far, getting about 2" groups at 100m, found that wiping between shots is really a good idea. (am using a greese cookie) Without wiping and only blow tubing the groups doubled in size. Still fine for hunting. It was fun to get paper patches to shoot, am next going to try the 450g pp.

keith

taw1126 · Post by **taw1126** » Sun May 02, 2004 9:08 pm

Keith- Have you read Mike Venturino's book and reviewed what he had to say about crimping PPB's? I assume that you are using the Lyman taper crimp die that he refers to and are patching to bore size also? Did you find that the tapered bullets are hard to patch? By the way- have you placed a powder order yet?

Rich- did you see any difference in how the two bullet designs shot? I'm trying like hell to avoid casting my own bullets. Between the commute, pretty demanding work schedule, and two very young boys it's tough to find rec time at all. If off-the-shelf stuff doesn't work I'll probably try swaging, but I don't want to start down that road either.

Thanks to both for the replies.

Trey

Brent · Post by **Brent** » Mon May 03, 2004 7:05 am

[quote="RichBratlee"]Hey taw, I tried both and the only trouble I had was getting them big enough to get some neck tension on and keep them small enough to still chamber--This is in a 45-70 and I think I am going to go with a custom bullet if I can find someone to make the mould I drew up--

$Rich[/quote]

Rich,
try neck sizing your cases, but not belling them afterwards. Works for me.
Brent

RichBratlee · Post by **RichBratlee** » Mon May 03, 2004 4:37 pm

Hi Brent
I tried that---the problem I had was the patch had to be seated almost all the way into the case or it hit the rifling and when I went with a smaller diameter I could not get it to tighten in the neck--you could spin the bullet in the case--I have your e-mail on here and will send you a drawing of the bullet I am going to try and get made--see what you think

Rich

Halfcock · Post by **Halfcock** » Tue May 04, 2004 7:00 pm

Rich: I had Steve Brooks make a PP mould for me. Works great. The bullet is tapered so quite a bit of the patch can enter the bore. With a bullet length of 1.43, only about 0.310 goes into the case. Steve made a nose pour mold with a cupped base. I don't know if I would do the cupped base again; maybe Brent can add his thoughts to the base issue.

By the way brent, I pretty much coppied the bullet shown on your web site except in a tapered version.

Paul

RichBratlee · Post by **RichBratlee** » Tue May 04, 2004 9:19 pm

Hi guys, That's pretty much all you can get into a 45-70 is a short on around 400 gr---That's what rdnck told me and what I found out using his info--just not enough case with the 45-70 to get everything crammed in there and use a big bullet---Wait a minute just reread you Halfcock---1.43 gets inok?--Hmmm might have to give Steve a call and get a mould cut-- Thanks guys and ,,,

Taw--hope all this has helped somewhat--Talk to ya later!!

Rich

taw1126 · Post by **taw1126** » Wed May 05, 2004 9:14 pm

I'm asking these questions because I certainly don't have any answers, but I thought one of the biggest advantages of bore-sized PPB's was that you could seat the bullet as far out as you want. My next guess was that tapered bullets allowed easier loading of bullets that had been seated out when the bore was dirty. Somewhere it seems I read Brent seats target loads less than 0.1-inches into the case.

I would think this means more powder capacity to go along with the "coolness factor" that gets mentioned pretty often.

KHR · Post by **KHR** » Sat May 08, 2004 8:37 am

Trey,
sorry about the tardy reply, its the end of the school year and really rushed!!!
I did read mikes book, also read paul mattews book "the paper jacket" this book has a wealth of info on paperpatching, i highly reccomend it.
I'm using the patching paper you can get from buffalo arms and their template. When cut with the paper grain, the paper patch fits perfectly.

I'm patching with an egg white and water mixture that mattew's reccomended, 2 egg whites per pint water stirred, not shaken. This solution makes the patch shrink down nicely on the curve of the bullet, yet releases well when shot. I patch on a sheet of heavy glass, the idea is that whatever surface you patch on, it must not absorb any water or the patch will dry out too much. My overall length is 2.875, my bullet measures .456 just outside of the brass. If I wipe between shots, the round easily fits. If I just blow tube then the lands show up on th patch when the next round is inserted. (and accuracy is degraded, but still good enough for hunting)

I have found that paper patching is not very hard to do, and it is easy to rip the wet patch off and start over, the key seems to not have too much overlap on the base so that the top of the patch will shrink over the front curve of the bullet. Generally I try to have the bottom paper edges just barely touch when pushed into the cupped base.

I havent ordered powder yet, but really need to, down to 1 & 1/2 lbs of swiss 1.5, e-mail or pm me.

Also did you get that original buisness rifle?

keith

Buckskinner · Post by **Buckskinner** » Sun May 09, 2004 6:02 am

Rich, Brent

I have a adjustable mould Steve Brooks made for me that is of the highest quality. His workmanship is top notch! You will need Saeco Handles if you don't already have them.

The PP thing is really fun IMO!!

Have a good day
Gary

JAGG · Post by **JAGG** » Tue May 11, 2004 3:36 pm

T 1126 ! If your going to use a tappered bullet you should be able to get more powder into the 45/70 case ! If you blow tube between each shot you should be able to seat the next round with any problems ! I have patched .445 and .450 bullets to .460 to .465 and seated them into the case with at least 68 grains or more of powder ! I used to use the lube wad ,but it didn't keep the barrel clean enought to fire the next round with out tearing the patch anyway ! So i just blow tube between shots and wipe after 3 rds ! Oh ! One more thing is to make sure that you cut that paper tail very close to the bullet base ! I made a tube punch type cutter to do that ! This is what i use for hunting ! Until i got tired of patching all the time ! JAGG