Annual Caribou hunt

[mdeland]

Yeah and the natives before them did it with bow and arrow and spear course lots of them got killed in the process. If you don't want to read about the hunt don't, some folks are interested in all guns not just BPCRs, which are not very well suited for dangerous game shooting. Mess around dangerous game long enough, with inadequate fire power (single shot rifles and vernier tang sights) and you very likely will get into trouble.
I'm not bragging about the blessings I enjoy but I am sharing with those who may never get the chance to experience them and are interested in the subject matter. What skin is that off your nose? Sounds more like sour grapes to me!

[jackrabbit]

Lol! Sorry to get under your skin, Mike! I just don't agree with your assessments on the limitations of BPCR rifles. They will out penetrate almost any modern rifle and as you suggested, nothing is going to knock these big critters off of their feet. Penetrate the vitals and wait for their death, or interrupt their nervous system for a quicker kill, those are your choices. Anybody can do what you are doing with modern guns, big deal. What happens when technology brings about laser blasters? Is it going to be irresponsible and silly to use old style, inferior 338's and such?

Why don't you build up a nice 8 or 9 pound roller in 45-70 and take it hunting along with your 338 next year and write it up? Now that would be interesting and would even make a good article for the Black Powder Cartridge News.

[mdeland]

Already have built that exact gun but it weighs 11 lbs. Truth be told although I have lots of experience at BPCR Midrange shooting (Known ranges and sight setting) I've never felt I could do justice to the game for a quick and humane kill using either of my 45-70's. The reasoning is having to accurately judge range which in our area is quite long for game shooting. My last caribou was 277 yards and the year before was 374 if memory serves and as caribou are continually on the move I don't think I could keep up with the fast range changes. Then again there is the very real grizzly threat that is continual in this area. No place for a single shot in my mind.

[mdeland]

Oh, to answer your question on the wildcat case. No, it's not a 338-06. It's built on the .280 Rem case which is longer than the standard 06 case and holds a good 5-6 grains more powder and out preforms the standard 338-06 by quite a margin, approx 150- 200 fps with a 210 Nosler using H414 powder. The best part is how long cases last as I've yet to loose one in four or five reloading. Primer pockets still tight as well. With game pressure loads six reloading's is about max with the Magnums then the primer pockets usually start to loosen up. Big difference from my 2.1 cases that will take many times that number and keep right on going.

[beltfed]

Mike,
YOu are right on.
Tho I like single shots a lot, especially BPCRs, Only way I would even Think about
a DG hunt or other hunting around DG with a single shot is if there was BIG Bore Repeating Rifle or say 10 ga shotgun/slugs as
with someone who knows how to use it as backup.
To do otherwise is irresponsible and Stupid.

Jackrabbit: Other possible Antique rifle for the DG purpose would be a heavy smokeless loaded
Repeater like my M 1886 Win 45-70 with 500 gr bullet up the spout and 385 gr hard cast FPs /1800fps loads in the mag.
Would that be traditional enough?
beltfed/arnie

[Dan O]

Mike I have enjoyed your past posts regarding your hunts. Those were completed with modern rifles if I remember correctly. No one complained then and shouldn't now. BUT if someone was writing the check for your hunt then by all means they should have input on what you use. Since I don't think that is happening use what you want and have a great hunt. Personally I wish I could go along with you that type of hunt has always been on my bucket list.

So use the rifle you want, have fun, be careful "don't pet the bears" and post the results when you get back.

Dan

[rdnck]

jackrabbit gets it. You other guys don't. And you obviously don't have the slightest clue how to use a BPCR for hunting, or have any idea what they are capable of. Knowing the range is not a problem. Ever heard of a laser range finder? I use one in the field and carry a spare. A 277 yard shot on an animal the size of a caribou is a chip shot with a Sharps when you know how to use it, and 374 should be no problem. In Africa, I routinely killed plains game at distances over 300 yards with a 45-110 and a 45-70 with barrel buck horn sights and a blade front--no tang sight needed or wanted. A springbok is small, slightly smaller than our antelope, and I killed one at 541 yards with my 45-110, first shot. A blesbok was taken at 451 yards with my 45-70 a couple of years later, again the first shot. A buddy of mine killed a cape buffalo with his Shiloh 45-70 loaded with black powder and a 535 grain paper patched bullet at 30-1. It was a 25 yard shot and the dagga boy was down and done within 40 yards. I have it on DVD.

If you knew anything about hunting with a BPCR, you would know that a roller is NOT the way to go. Reason? They don't have an ejector, only an extractor. A Sharps has an EJECTOR and can provide a second shot faster than most bolt guns, if you know how to use it.

By the way, I have killed a couple of bears, too. With a Hawken. They go straight down when you put a 570 round ball over 120 grains of 2f down their ear canal.

You boys have fun with your inflatable rubber boats. rdnck.

[mdeland]

I don't know of one bear guide that uses a single shot and lead bullets but I would suppose there could be one out there somewhere and I bet none of your African PHs used anything but heavy repeaters (double or bolt gun with jacketed bullets) but hey, you know more than they all do about dangerous game so have at it . No, when it comes to dangerous game you are promoting a stunt not a reasonable sporting proposition in my mind so you can crow about your shooting prowess to your fans.
Keep at it until you get someone hurt or killed including yourself. Also I'd wager that the two muzzle loading bears where not brown or grizzlies. Only seen one brown drop to the shot and that was with a 35 Whelen and 250 grain Speer. Cut their wiring and down they go, miss bone and they can be hard to kill. Same thing with Blacks. Hunting dangerous game is risky enough with powerful and modern gear but as the main armament when hunting alone a BPCR is foolishness ! How do you suppose I figure so closely the range I killed the caribou at?

[bobw]

Not taking any sides here on the BPCR/ Smokeless modern gun choice, because it's Mdeland's choice and all he has are parlor gun BPCR's anyway. But, I do surely like his stories and pics of his float trips, go get them Mdeland. goodluck and get back in one piece. bobw

[Michael Johnson]

These little spats never fail to surprise me. This thread was posted in the Shooter to Shooter section, which is where it belongs. It was posted by a fellow well known to all of us. He lives in Alaska (our last frontier), hunts more than 98% of us, and he is a gunsmith. I always enjoy reading his posts but that is besides the point. Who cares what weapon we use to hunt with? At least at 70 Mike is still out there doing it. That ought to be celebrated. About three years ago "Bugle" the quarterly journal of the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation had a great article about interactions between hunters and grizzly. The article contrasted bear spray vs firearm against a charging bruin. Believe it or not the evidence actually supports bear spray for deterring a bear attack. The conclusion was that unless you are an expert shot you were unlikely to hit the vitals on a target that is quickly closing the distance as well as bobbing up and down. So, you are likely to miss with your first, second and whatever shot. But here is the rub, 40 Mile Air will not let you pack bear spray per FAA regs. I asked about duct taping it to the aircraft strut, they said no. Your only option is a hand gun for secondary defense. Myself, I would rather have a bolt action rifle with an adequate cartridge or a lever gun (like my Model 71 in 348 Win). Anybody who wants to backpack camp (my trip) or float trip (Mike's trip) with a single shot; more power to them. Do it in grizzly country! Easy to shoot a caribou with a BPCR (no doubt about it). Just don't cut a game trail between a sow grizzly and her cub. Don't criticize a guy who lives in Alaska who carries a 338. He has good reason. Maybe we should fund a "Go Fund me" account to send Bill Bagwell on a trip north of Tok, AK in the 40 mile unit with his 45-70 Sharps to hunt, out of a tent, in the rain/ snow, with no guide. He will do great against caribou and moose. But I guarantee you he will feel absolutely naked against a pissed off grizzly. I may not be much better off with my 375, but I believe it gives me a better chance. There is a reason folks are not doing a lot of hunting in Alaska with a single shot rifle.

[BFD]

It amazes me that anyone here (other than bagwell - his chest pounding is expected) would jump on ANYONE for using whatever damn gun they choose to go hunting.

I've been to AK and crawled around in the riverside willows with a singleshot and a hind quarter of ungulate on my back. It's probably not very smart, but I chose to do it anyway because I felt like it. A multishooter just makes a whole lotta sense for such places - at least among those that have been there, done that.

No, the people that get it, ain't the people whining about Deland's choice of rifle. This is ridiculous.

Good luck Deland. Love to see that boat -maybe we should all bitch about it not being a log raft or a bark canoe.

Was looking at some photos of caribou bulls earlier today. Sure are handsome beasts.

[jackrabbit]

You guys are missing the whole point. I don't care what Deland wants to use to hunt with, but I do what message people take from reading this forum. The point is this is a SINGLE SHOT BPCR forum and I have no idea why anyone would come on here, post all this stuff about hunting with a modern rifle and then start spouting about the superiority of a modern rifle over a BPCR rifle. Having hunted lots and lots with BPCR rifles, they are not inferior as far as killing power and are a heck of a lot of fun to hunt with. There are a whole lot of people that read this forum and do not post or may not even have any idea about BPCR but are trying to learn. Shouldn't we be ambassadors and show them how much fun it is to hunt with a BPCR rifle and how effective they can be? People reading this thread would probably think hunting with a BPCR rifle is a bad idea, and nothing could be farther from the truth! Also, apparently you are only allowed to take one rifle hunting in Alaska?? Keep your 338 or 375 or whatever for bears if you feel the need, but why not take a BPCR rifle along as well? Lots of folks are missing out by not hunting with them.

[Glen Ring]

Sounds like a wonderful adventure. One that I will never get to do...but please post details.
I think if I laid out that much cash and spent that much time I would want a very efficient and flat shooting rifle .
I have hunted with my own hand made Osage bows, dogwood arrows and my own knapped stone arrowheads...would I want to hunt bear with one??? Heck no! Although it could be argued they have successfully been harvested with stone tools for hundreds of years.

It's your coin, hunt your way and post pics...for us old guys that will never get to do that....and details for guys on here that might want to do it .

Good luck and be safe.

[BFD]

Cody,
Let's let Kirk and Lucinda play policemen. It is their forum.

I wouldn't take an extra rifle on a trip like that. Too much gear, is too much gear. There is only so much space and cargo capacity in a plane too. You should try to go hunting for a week in the bush with only a 50#/person weight limit. Good luck with two rifles.

[jackrabbit]

Brent, letting Kirk and Lucinda play policeman would be a good idea. Nobody (especially me) can seem to say or question anything without you jumping in and lecturing about being critical or negative. Everything is not pixy dust, fairies and unicorns, my friend. Having a question or comment that is something other than phony positive is not a bad thing. It is called CONVERSATION. Give me a friggin break!

You all have fun, I am done.
Cody