Bullet Nose setback not slump.

[bruce m]

with respect my last post.
I stated that I recall only reading about the o.d.g. using mainly lead/tin.
this is American bullets.
the brits were heavily into antimony through William metford's work with sir henry halford.
they shot thousands of test bullets of different antimonial alloys, and commented on the need to compare results as the alloys "ripened."
some of this work was done with muzzle loaders, necessitating bore diameter bullets, and some with cartridge guns, which could have been bore or groove diameter.
metford commented on some pure lead bullets setting back almost like wadcutters.
bruce.

[mdeland]

Thanks for the research and heads up Ray for the on line data! Very good info in that book, even on PP use.

[Kurt]

Ray, I have that book in my Books file. You can down load the whole book under export it as PDF.

[beltfed]

I have an original copy of Harrison's "Cast Bullets" which I cherish
and often refer to, esp regarding some of the charts of alloys,etc.
I bought it at the old NRA headquarters in Wash. D.C.
when I had visited it back when.
Something how much people are asking for a copy
beltfed/arnie

[mdeland]

I have the Harrison book but need to get a copy of "Cartridges of the World". Where can I get a copy of the book?

[Kurt]

Bullet alloys will do all sorts of strange things, They will not only setback but also stretch. Here is one example of that happening. Both were swaged the same dimensions.

IMG_08470.jpeg

[Ray Newman]

RE "Cartridges of the World" -- which edition?

I think the last one I saw was the 15th or 16th edition.

Look on AMAZON for used copies as well as:

https://www.abebooks.com/
https://www.alibris.com/

[labop]

labop,

I alloy I use is a mix for the .45 caliber is a mix of 18# lead and one roll of 95/5 no lead solder/95% tin/5% antimony. The solder manufactures have to hold a standard so the composition of the product is what it's stated. This mix from my tests shooting the .45-2.4 and the .45-70 gives me the best obturation filling the grooves using a PP bullet. The .40 calibers need 17# lead with one roll for the same results.
Sometime when you run your compression tests try a mix like this and add it to your listened post it.

Brent the dimple on the nose is a good idea I will give a try this winter. But I will use two. One on the point and one on the ogive close to where the ogive meats the shank just far enough ahead so the dimple don't get cut by the lands.
The Lee lead tester is the perfect tool to use for this because it's calibrated with 60# pressure on the ball. (I think they use a 5/32 ball diameter)
Kurt

Kurt
I found I have a four ounce roll of 95 tin-5 antimony solder. I will make a heat of your 40 caliber alloy next run. By my calculation your 45 caliber alloy is 94.74 lead-5 tin-0.26 antimony. Not much antimony there at 0.26 % so I would expect compression results in the range of 20-1 alloy. The 40 caliber alloy would be 94.44 lead-5.28 tin-0.28 antimony, not much difference.
labop

[Kurt]

labop.
I agree the antimony math percentages are small, but the setback protection figures are great with that small amount of antimony.
If your going to use just Tin/Lead alloy for a PP bullet .44 to .50 caliber 1/16 is just about perfect. .38 to .40 Cal. I would add a little more tin to hold the nose setback.
For a GG bullet the hard alloy has a benefit over a soft for target work because the obturation filling the grooves is not an issue.

If you really want to put the squeeze to the alloy I use I can make some cores that are perfect in size, weight and density using my swage press and dies.

Kenny.

I have used 16 foot long tables saw oiled sawdust bullet traps 3' square X 16' long during the summer and they work fine, but comparing the bullets from the same batch of alloy cast at the same time frame to see the difference in the amount of setback and the snow won by several thousands.
Even Pope has made mention between the two. Sawdust will work just fine.
Your getting a good supply of the white stuff this year. For what your wanting to do use a fresh snow bank that drifted with a cold dry snow fall the snow will not damage the nose.

[labop]

Kurt
In order for the results to be comparable to other alloys I have tested I would need to cast your alloy in my mold.
labop

[art ruggiero]

anyone using 22rimfire scrap for casting? art

[Kurt]

It took me a while to find this. Here is what 1/20 alloy from rotometal looks like fired from my .44-90 BN shiloh with a 1/19 ROT. I have another someplace shot with a 1/16 ROT same alloy but with a different result in the setback. Alloy does not react the same in different diameters/twists and loads.

IMG_0518.jpeg

[BFD]

Kurt,
If you still have those bullets, measure from the nose tip to the first groove or some other landmark near the nose.

[Kurt]

Sorry Brent. They are all now in here in these 10-12 Lb bricks.

IMG_3433.jpeg

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Kurt,

Sorry been so long getting back to you, busy helping and spending Christmas at the ranch.

I think a oiled sawdust box might be In my future.


KW