Maximising the 50/70
- Bad Ass Wallace
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Maximising the 50/70
Available bullets for 50/70 seem to be limited to either 450gn Lyman or 700gn+ from custom mould makers. The 450 seems just a bit light for the calibre and the 700gn+ are too much to be pushed by only just 70gn of powder. Obviously rechambering to 50/90 is an option, but I would like to firstly develop and test the smaller case to it's full potential.
Because the 50/70 cases and components are relatively common today, those of us that just like punching big holes in paper or for hunting game, are very limited in controlling performance. I've heard of one shooter regularly winning places in sillhouette competition with a 50/70 using a custom bore riding bullet of about 550gns.
If you were to try to get maximum performance from the 50/70 what weight bullet would you recommend? I would be very interested to hear from any 50/70 shooters and their experiences with custom bullets.
Because the 50/70 cases and components are relatively common today, those of us that just like punching big holes in paper or for hunting game, are very limited in controlling performance. I've heard of one shooter regularly winning places in sillhouette competition with a 50/70 using a custom bore riding bullet of about 550gns.
If you were to try to get maximum performance from the 50/70 what weight bullet would you recommend? I would be very interested to hear from any 50/70 shooters and their experiences with custom bullets.
Hold still Varmint, while I plugs yer!
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- RMulhern
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Maximize the 50/70
If I were wanting to "maximize" the 50/70.....I'd trade it for a .50/90!
- Ken Hartlein
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I had a Hoch mold rebored to 50 cal with the bullet weighing 490 grains. Shoots very well out of my Shiloh 50/70 saddle rifle with a 26" barrel. My gun also likes the Lyman 535 mold and I've also shot 550 grain bullets cast and sold by the Bull Shop with good results. I still need to do much more testing at longer ranges. My work to date has been at 100 yards with groups averaging 2".
Rich
Rich
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...maximizing the .50-70....
Keep this thread going guys! I'm dickering on a .50-70 Shiloh '74 Military Rifle.
Any preference for brass out there? I have an article by Ross Seyfried in the Jan/Feb issue of "Rifle" magazine on an 1866 .50-70 Allin conversion he restocked with a Euroarms 1864 Springfield stock.
He had the joy of using an original Lyman combo tool to make the rounds.
The bullets weighed out at 453 grains and measured .520. The tool's sizer reduced them to .516. He pan lubed with SPG, of course.
He used 70 grains of FFg in MAST/BELL brass with standard Winchester primers. He never bothered with an over powder card wad, simply using one Walters .060 fiber wad.
He claimed 1 1/2" x 3" groups at 100 yards, none too shabby with the issue sights.
I've heard that the .50-70 "Little 50" is not a shoulder thumper and drops what ever it hits in it's tracks.
Todd
Any preference for brass out there? I have an article by Ross Seyfried in the Jan/Feb issue of "Rifle" magazine on an 1866 .50-70 Allin conversion he restocked with a Euroarms 1864 Springfield stock.
He had the joy of using an original Lyman combo tool to make the rounds.
The bullets weighed out at 453 grains and measured .520. The tool's sizer reduced them to .516. He pan lubed with SPG, of course.
He used 70 grains of FFg in MAST/BELL brass with standard Winchester primers. He never bothered with an over powder card wad, simply using one Walters .060 fiber wad.
He claimed 1 1/2" x 3" groups at 100 yards, none too shabby with the issue sights.
I've heard that the .50-70 "Little 50" is not a shoulder thumper and drops what ever it hits in it's tracks.
Todd
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"
- Bad Ass Wallace
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I got to thinking, a 45/70 with bore riding bullets about 540-560gns seem to be 'the king' of BPCR and everything else.
Why wouldn't a 50/70 case which holds the same amount of powder as the 45 with a similar form of bullet shoot just as well. I've fired a few hundred rounds from my Pedersoli Long Range and I'm very impressed with the roundness of the groups at 100yds. When fired at 300 the groups have only 3.5" vertical dispersion but 6-7" horizontal in gentle breezes.
A bullet 100gn heavier should be better ballistically, but also with a bore riding nose, better align in the barrel like the 45/70
Why wouldn't a 50/70 case which holds the same amount of powder as the 45 with a similar form of bullet shoot just as well. I've fired a few hundred rounds from my Pedersoli Long Range and I'm very impressed with the roundness of the groups at 100yds. When fired at 300 the groups have only 3.5" vertical dispersion but 6-7" horizontal in gentle breezes.
A bullet 100gn heavier should be better ballistically, but also with a bore riding nose, better align in the barrel like the 45/70
Hold still Varmint, while I plugs yer!
- Bad Ass Wallace
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Comments please; do you think it will it work?
http://img50.photobucket.com/albums/v15 ... e/5070.jpg
two large lube grooves, parallel bore riding nose
http://img50.photobucket.com/albums/v15 ... e/5070.jpg
two large lube grooves, parallel bore riding nose
Hold still Varmint, while I plugs yer!
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.50 calibre bullet design
Hey Bad Ass
The bullet looks good. As long as it carries a lot of lube.
I really am baffled by the constant trend to heavier and heavier bullets in all calibres. These require faster twists and essentially we have re-invented the wheel and lost the historic character of the very rifles we admire.
Why not just get a .50 calibre Barret, load it with hard cast 750 grain bullets and blackpowder?
The question I originally posted was on loading for the .50-70 Gov't, the "little .50". No one has commented.
Todd
The bullet looks good. As long as it carries a lot of lube.
I really am baffled by the constant trend to heavier and heavier bullets in all calibres. These require faster twists and essentially we have re-invented the wheel and lost the historic character of the very rifles we admire.
Why not just get a .50 calibre Barret, load it with hard cast 750 grain bullets and blackpowder?
The question I originally posted was on loading for the .50-70 Gov't, the "little .50". No one has commented.
Todd
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"
- Ken Hartlein
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...50-70....
I don't necessarily want to "maximize it", I just want to to shoot it and enjoy it for what it is, not make it into something it isn't - a .50 calibre mini-magnum.
Todd
Todd
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"
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Todd,
I carried my 50/70 Shiloh this year but no shots at deer. To answer your question, the 50/70 with the old stand-by mold, the Lyman 515 that casts a 450 soft lead bullet does as well in my rifle as the heavier bullets and I think almost anything you shoot at, whether paper, buffalo or deer, will drop as fast if hit with that bullet as a 700 grain cannon shot. That said though, I do like the heavier Lyman bullet, 535 grains, because it has a larger flat nose. Recoil between the two in my 10 pound saddle rifle is not much different. Trajectory is nothing to brag about but that's part of the game with the 50/70.
By the way, Steve Garbe in his magazine, "Black Powder Cartridge Rifle", made a strong arguement that the 50/70 was the original "Big 50" as referred to by the buffalo hunters. Many old photographs show professional hunters using 50/70 trapdoor rifles and carbines. Sellers states that the 50/70, along with the 44/77, were the most popular buffalo calibers in the Sharps until the Army switched over to the 45/70. Like today, hunters always like the current military cartridges.
Well, off to the N-SSA Nationals in Virginia with my '63 Shiloh carbine. Back in a week.
Rich
I carried my 50/70 Shiloh this year but no shots at deer. To answer your question, the 50/70 with the old stand-by mold, the Lyman 515 that casts a 450 soft lead bullet does as well in my rifle as the heavier bullets and I think almost anything you shoot at, whether paper, buffalo or deer, will drop as fast if hit with that bullet as a 700 grain cannon shot. That said though, I do like the heavier Lyman bullet, 535 grains, because it has a larger flat nose. Recoil between the two in my 10 pound saddle rifle is not much different. Trajectory is nothing to brag about but that's part of the game with the 50/70.
By the way, Steve Garbe in his magazine, "Black Powder Cartridge Rifle", made a strong arguement that the 50/70 was the original "Big 50" as referred to by the buffalo hunters. Many old photographs show professional hunters using 50/70 trapdoor rifles and carbines. Sellers states that the 50/70, along with the 44/77, were the most popular buffalo calibers in the Sharps until the Army switched over to the 45/70. Like today, hunters always like the current military cartridges.
Well, off to the N-SSA Nationals in Virginia with my '63 Shiloh carbine. Back in a week.
Rich
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NSSA Nationals
Thanks for the info, Rich!
Good to hear that the "Big Fifty" was the little guy on the block. One source I have gives the honour to the .50-90.
Good shooting at the NSSA Nats with your '63! Be sure to post your impressions, load, lessons learned, etc.
Todd
Good to hear that the "Big Fifty" was the little guy on the block. One source I have gives the honour to the .50-90.
Good shooting at the NSSA Nats with your '63! Be sure to post your impressions, load, lessons learned, etc.
Todd
"From birth to the packing house, we travel between the two eternities ....." Robert Duvall in "Broken Trail"
- Ken Hartlein
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